Discrimination Advice Needed

[gman]

Hi All,
I just joined the group and was browsing around in search of answers. I'm an adult stutterer that most people consider to be "over it". I do get hung up and block occasionally, but never for more than a second or two when I'm not paying attention. I've managed to get through a good portion of my life (38) and build a decent business.
About 10 years ago I started voluteering as an EMT in my town and one strange thing I found out was that communicating in high-pressure life threating situations seem to have a positive effect on my stuttering that transferred to other areas of my life. A friend of mine who worked with me as an EMT, joined the local police department.
Knowing that I also had an interest in law enforcement, my friend encoraged me to apply for a part time police officer position in the department which I did.
I scored very well on the written and physical testing. The board style interview was tough, but I though I did fairly well, I may have stuttered once or twice. A few days latter I was called in to meet with the decision maker who told me I did real well in all areas but the board uncovered one "problem", my stuttering. He then told me that he/they couldn't hire an officer that had ANY stutter due to liability concerns. Explaining that I hadn't ever had an issue communicating under stress in my 10 years of EMT work didn't seem to matter.
I know that I can do the job, as do others in the department. I'd rather not turn this into a "legal" issue (not even sure if stuttering falls under the ADA). Are there any police officers or others in this group that could give me some advice on how to proceed here ? I need to follow up on this fairly quickly.
Thanks,
Gary

[Asif]

Try looking at it from the interviewer's side.
You have a speech impediment.
You have a handicap.
You have learned to make allowances for it, and live with it. Good for you!
This does not mean that you are now "equal" to people who are not handicapped.
Have you ever looked at the "Handicapped Olympics" and wondered what on earth it was about? Have you ever lived in the UK where we have a BLIND home secretary??? Wasn't there anybody else available who could SEE? I remain nonplused.
I know my views on this are not popular, but they are probably realistic.
Imagine your impediment DID re-assert itself at a critical moment, and somebody paid for it.
Not everybody can (or should) do everyTHING.
Hope you're not upset by this: I wondered if I should bother writing it, but it IS how I felt.
I certainly hope you don't resort to legal channels to try to force yourself into a job you probably really shouldn't have.

[gman]

Asif,
All I can say is I'm glad that everyone doesn't feel like you do, otherwise stutterers as a group wouldn't evolve much and still be thought of and treated as mental defectives. I wish I had a $1 for everyone who told me I couldn't do something because of something about me THEY imagined as a limitation.

Every human being has limitations, defects, phobias, etc. that may assert themselves at any time. Some are hidden, some aren't.

I'm also certain the person who I saved from a certain death in a cardiac arrest a few days ago is also glad I didn't listen to the naysayers (there were quite a few), and became an EMT many years ago.

I'm not from the UK, I live in the US. Is your blind home secretary, not doing a good job because they are blind or some other reason ? Are handicapped public officials unusual in the UK ? Here in the us we have had many presidents and other high ranking officials with various handicapps.

I'm not at all upset, just a bit disapointed that a fellow stutterer is buying into the stereotype. Surely if someone couldn't do a critical function of a job/sport/etc. they shouldn't be doing it. I just hapen to believe that the person that knows that best is themselves.

Thanks for reading,
gman

[Asif]

Gman:
I'd answer but I suspect it would be pointless.
We see things differently.
I'm sure you'd make a wonderful cop.
Asif.

[llw03c]

Try looking at it from the interviewer's side.
You have a speech impediment.
You have a handicap.
You have learned to make allowances for it, and live with it. Good for you!
This does not mean that you are now "equal" to people who are not handicapped.
Have you ever looked at the "Handicapped Olympics" and wondered what on earth it was about? Have you ever lived in the UK where we have a BLIND home secretary??? Wasn't there anybody else available who could SEE? I remain nonplused.
I know my views on this are not popular, but they are probably realistic.
Imagine your impediment DID re-assert itself at a critical moment, and somebody paid for it.
Not everybody can (or should) do everyTHING.
Hope you're not upset by this: I wondered if I should bother writing it, but it IS how I felt.
I certainly hope you don't resort to legal channels to try to force yourself into a job you probably really shouldn't have.


by the same token, dude, i'd gladly take a job that required little to no speaking but they just don't exist. does this mean that we can't make a living??? we have to work. no one wants to make provisions for stutterers. we still have to take speech class in college. i still had to orally present my master's thesis. we're expected to live like "normal" people. i'd go so far to say that sometimes people think our disability isn't "genuine". why all of a sudden when its time to give a stutterer his due there's a problem?? if the dude can handle the job then he deserves it. i think he SHOULD pursue a lawsuit. if you're going to start denying jobs, then i'd like to see provisions made for stutterers (speech class exemptions at school, no oral presentations, etc..). since that won't happen i see no reason why someone can't work if they're qualified.

[Asif]

Good points and bad points...
Yes it would be fine if we could all get decent jobs that required minimal or no talking. But it's not like that.
Bad points in that lawsuits serve nobody. Who would want a job that was acquired through a legal battle?

But I see cultural differences at work here.
The "american view" at odds with the "british view".
Few brits would see a situation that seemed unfair and then go and sue somebody so that the unfair might suddenly become fair.
Life is inherently unfair. That is how it should be. But most of all: that is the way it IS.

But I tire of this circular dispute. "Gman" was asking for feedback. He got it.
My view is as valid as anybody elses, whether or not it is popular.
Stutterers have a dual problem: not only do they have a murderous time trying to talk, but that problem can produce a LOT of anger.
A cop's job is difficult enough without having a lot of anger to deal with too.
I never carry a weapon: I would be far too dangerous if I did.
But that's just me :)
Asif.

[awp]

Have to agree with Asif...
I never would have thought that I wouldn't be able to get help for someone if they had a emergency but my stuttering almost allowed my husband to die of a massive heart attack...the words just wouldn't come out.

This happened almost 15 years ago but I remember it like yesterday, I can still hear him begging me to call for help.
He's had three more heart attacks since then, the last one was also at home but this time.... I was able to call for help.
I am also considered "over it" but I couldn't make that call.

just my 2 cents

[Asif]

Thank you AWP :)
A small voice of reason in the general chaos of political correctness.
Stutterers learn - sooner or later - that living with who and what they are is the only real way of dealing with being dealt a really bad hand.
You painted a vivd picture of your nightmarish experience trying to get help for your husband: I can see it all too clearly. I hope you were able to forgive yourself for your blameless shortcomings.
Good luck to everyone afflicted with a stutter!
Learn to love yourselves for who you are: without being a victim of trying to be like all those other people who never give a second thought to the supremely difficult mechanics of speech.
Best wishes:
Asif.

[Gary1450]

The one thing you must realize is that for me anyway, my stuttering changes.

Some weeks or even months I can speak close to fluent. Other times I can't even say my name or answer the phone.

I know my limitations. It's hard to say either way in this case.

Everybody's different.

[ysy]

Although Gman’s original post was posted almost a year ago, I still want to say something…
Gman: I feel so sorry for you that you couldn’t do what you thrive for only because of your stutter, and that they even made this so explicit. But pursuing a lawsuit probably won’t help. According to my very limited knowledge on related issues, discrimination only refers to unfair treatment of a person for who he/she IS, rather than for what he/she CAN/CANNOT DO. In your case it seems to be the latter. The case probably will lose. Did you try telling them people in your EMT group can be your referees?
Anyway I agree with you. We should never allow ourselves to be limited by other people’s stereotypes. My dad stutters (sometimes quite severely), but he’s been a teacher for like 24 years now. His students do laugh at him, but at the same time they also appreciate his influence on so many people. What would these people become if he was put off teaching by his stutter 24 years ago? Though in your case it’s different coz somebody may have to pay for your stutter. But the most important thing is, you have proved yourself to be capable of handling urgent situations very well and managed to save a life. This is so encouraging to the rest of us!!! ;) Your stutter definitely does not stop you from being a very useful person in society, just that it may be difficult for you to do charity work under an employer.

[stayathomemom]

gman do what you trhink is right if you feel you were discriminated against then fight it. I myself do not stutter but I know plenty that do and youhave every right to be a cop if you want and what they are doig is making you feel you arent adequate enough which isnt the case. I say fight for what you believe in and dont let people like asif tell you shouldnt do a job just cause you stutter. What he is saying is being discriminatory as well and that isnt fair to you. You looked for advice and someone who would understand and my feeling is like I said fight for that job if you truly want it.

[stayathomemom]

asif if you cant support his decision then keep your mouth shut!

[Flash]

stayathomemom.....Instead of double posting, why not just edit your original post?

Also, i'm not sure why people keep posting in this thread. Gman originally posted this back in Nov. 2004 and his last post was in Dec. 2004. If he did infact decide to even make this a legal issue, then it's probably already been dealt with anyway.

Would be nice if he could come back and tell us the decision he made and how everything turned out.