stuttering acceptance

[bwelling]

Forums like this allow for a of people with similar personal traits to interact.

As I do not participate in other forums as I do this one, I wonder if a stutteringforum is unique in that it at times brings out the ugliness in some and how differing opinions are taken as a personal attack?

Do we have such a deep seated hatred to stuttering, that we can, without thinking, condemn and criticize those who are like us?

The personal attacks that some on this forum do freely, suggest that stutterers may by default repel rather than welcome those of like feather.

Maybe stutterers are so un-accepting of themselves that tolerance for any view of stuttering other than their own, cannot be seriously considered.

If any of this has any merit, I may consider not to be a stutterer anymore.

bw

[JDRow]

I think that some of what your talking about is frustration people feel when false ideas get perpetuated. Certainly an exchange of ideas is great, but that doesn't mean that every idea is right. I think, for example, when people take issue with the idea that stuttering is caused by psychological problems, it's not because they don't want to hear differing ideas, but because that particular idea has no basis in reality. It's been refuted by research again and again. So I don't think an open exchange of ideas means that all ideas--even those that have been proven to be false--need to be considered equally valid.

I can come on here saying that I believe I stutter because aliens abducted me when I was three and did experiments on me, and those caused me to stutter. If people challenged that belief as not really having a basis in reality, that wouldn't be a personal attack. People wouldn't have to consider my theory that stuttering is caused by alien abduction seriously, because there is not one single shred of evidence that it's true.

So, if somebody is perpetuating a false belief--like the idea that stuttering is caused by psychological problems--I don't think people have to simply treat that belief as equally valid to all others.

I think that's what you were trying to get at here, without coming out and saying it.

[JDRow]

As I do not participate in other forums as I do this one, I wonder if a stutteringforum is unique in that it at times brings out the ugliness in some and how differing opinions are taken as a personal attack?

I forgot to mention, I do frequent a few other online forums, on other topics, and this place is extremely civil in comparison. ;) So, I don't think there's anything unique about this forum, and, unless everybody on every other forum I've ever seen also happens to stutter, stutterers don't have any monopoly on disagreements or on thinking their personal theories are the only right ones.

[Adrian]

If any of this has any merit, I may consider not to be a stutterer anymore.


You may have to consider not being human anymore. :D

[Adrian]

I think, for example, when people take issue with the idea that stuttering is caused by psychological problems, it's not because they don't want to hear differing ideas, but because that particular idea has no basis in reality.

Very true. Moreover, I believe the idea that stuttering is caused by psychological issues is damaging to younger stutterers. Stutterers tend to have low self-esteem as it is without people telling them they are nut jobs to boot. If there is real evidence to back it up fine, but the evidence disproves stuttering is caused by psychological problems. I sometimes get a little angry reading some posts that propagate this myth and perhaps I could be a little more accepting. But I don't believe this is the message we should be sending to those who are new to our . The fact is we are no more or less psychologically screwed up then anyone else.

[JDRow]

If there is real evidence to back it up fine, but the evidence disproves stuttering is caused by psychological problems. I sometimes get a little angry reading some posts that propagate this myth and perhaps I could be a little more accepting. But I don't believe this is the message we should be sending to those who are new to our . The fact is we are no more or less psychologically screwed up then anyone else.

I agree, and I don't really understand why so many people seem to believe, despite the evidence, that they stutter because they're psychologically screwed up. I think it's hard to be very patient when people are basically saying, "I don't care about evidence or research; I believe my stuttering is caused by my thinking, and so it's true."

It's like trying to convince my parents the earth isn't about 6,000 years old. ;) There's not a piece of evidence in the world that would convince them that what they believe isn't true. And it's very difficult for me to stay calm and understanding when people are just so dead-set against allowing facts to influence their thinking. But I think it has to be possible to be accepting of people holding views that are not just different but downright wrong, without having to treat false beliefs as if they are just as valid as any other.

[bwelling]

Forums like this allow for a of people with similar personal traits to interact.

As I do not participate in other forums as I do this one, I wonder if a stutteringforum is unique in that it at times brings out the ugliness in some and how differing opinions are taken as a personal attack?

Do we have such a deep seated hatred to stuttering, that we can, without thinking, condemn and criticize those who are like us?

The personal attacks that some on this forum do freely, suggest that stutterers may by default repel rather than welcome those of like feather.

Maybe stutterers are so un-accepting of themselves that tolerance for any view of stuttering other than their own, cannot be seriously considered.

If any of this has any merit, I may consider not to be a stutterer anymore.

bw

[bwelling]

Forums like this allow for a of people with similar personal traits to interact.

As I do not participate in other forums as I do this one, I wonder if a stutteringforum is unique in that it at times brings out the ugliness in some and how differing opinions are taken as a personal attack?

Do we have such a deep seated hatred to stuttering, that we can, without thinking, condemn and criticize those who are like us?

The personal attacks that some on this forum do freely, suggest that stutterers may by default repel rather than welcome those of like feather.

Maybe stutterers are so un-accepting of themselves that tolerance for any view of stuttering other than their own, cannot be seriously considered.

If any of this has any merit, I may consider not to be a stutterer anymore.

bw


oops, sorry I didn't mean to repeat.
bw

[Adrian]

Forums like this allow for a of people with similar personal traits to interact.

As I do not participate in other forums as I do this one, I wonder if a stutteringforum is unique in that it at times brings out the ugliness in some and how differing opinions are taken as a personal attack?

Do we have such a deep seated hatred to stuttering, that we can, without thinking, condemn and criticize those who are like us?

The personal attacks that some on this forum do freely, suggest that stutterers may by default repel rather than welcome those of like feather.

Maybe stutterers are so un-accepting of themselves that tolerance for any view of stuttering other than their own, cannot be seriously considered.

If any of this has any merit, I may consider not to be a stutterer anymore.

bw

bw, I would disagree with your first sentence, "forums like this allow for a of people with similar personal traits to interact." Yes, we all may stutter, but our personality traits run the gamut.

I am on other non-stuttering discussion groups and people are just as nasty there. I think it is very easy for anyone (stutterer or not) to be more aggressive and hostile in a semi-anonymous environment such as an internet discussion group.

Adrian

[Adrian]

I don't really understand why so many people seem to believe, despite the evidence, that they stutter because they're psychologically screwed up.

I think these people simply want to believe that they just need to get their heads screwed on strait and, poof, they will magically be fluent. This may be one reason therapies such as NLP have become so popular in stuttering circles. I guess this message is more appealing then stuttering being caused by a neurological flaw.

Sorry, bwelling, I am straying a bit from your original post. :o

[andrewg818]

To clarify, Neurosemantics/NLP do not posit that people stutter because they are "psychologically" screwed up-- The field of NLP [which is also based on extensive psychological data, primary research, and decades of textbooks published on the subject]--is not specifically for stuttering--but for psychologically in general. All people "have" psychology and your behaviors, your beliefs, your attitudes are based on your own psychlogy and pertinent variables... NLP simply makes changes to your self-talk and language--to undo some of the personal psychologies you have that leave you less than happy. There are those who believe this can be applied to stuttering and/or stuttering acceptance. In their view, the world was created billions of years ago and YOU--who believe the vague research the contrary, think it was created 6,000 years ago-- So who is right? Thoughts create reality.

[happy7117]

Ask yourself this:

Are you willing to be accepting of constant torment and humiliation that stuttering causes you day after day?

For me, no way jose!

[JDRow]

In their view, the world was created billions of years ago and YOU--who believe the vague research the contrary, think it was created 6,000 years ago-- So who is right? Thoughts create reality.

This is the problem I have with NLP. Thoughts don't create reality. The world is either billions of years old, as all evidence seems to indicate, or just a few thousand years old, as some people believe for religious reasons. It's not both. No matter how strongly somebody may feel about either, it's not their belief in it that makes it true or not. People can believe false things with all the conviction in the world, and it still doesn't make that false belief true, because there is something called reality that actually exists.

For a long time people believed the earth was flat. Their belief that it was didn't make it true. The earth was still round, and they just believed the wrong thing about it. Misinterpreting reality is not the same thing as remaking it. I could ask: Some people think the world is flat, others think it's round. Who's right? Obviously the people who think the world is round are right. Thoughts aren't creating reality here. They're either based in reality or not. I guess my concern with NLP is that it seems to encourage people to hold beliefs that do not have a basis in reality.

I agree that there are situations where how you perceive a situation will make a big difference in the situation, but that doesn't mean reality is just something people invent in their heads. There is an actual world that exists, and we can't make things about it true just because we believe them.

[JDRow]

The field of NLP [which is also based on extensive psychological data, primary research, and decades of textbooks published on the subject]

From what I've read about NLP, there isn't a single mainstream psychological organization that supports it. There's no valid mainstream research that backs up its cls. It's been rejected as pseudoscience by pretty much the entire field of mainstream psychology.

If you do a search on NLP on the APA website, you'll find numerous articles showing the problems with NLP research and rejecting it because it has no proven therapeutic value.

[nate]

As I do not participate in other forums as I do this one, I wonder if a stutteringforum is unique in that it at times brings out the ugliness in some and how differing opinions are taken as a personal attack?


People here are way too frightened of conflict. Just bcoz we all stutter doesnt mean that we r identical siblings. And it doesnt mean that we have to all get along! In fact I'd wager that thats all we have in common.
About being a little more civil, that! This is probably the only place we can hold our own in an argument or a quarrel or even a fight.
Conflict is important, its healthy and its normal. Carry on gents. And ladies.
Nathaniel
Ask about me!

[bwelling]

The Stutter Stormtroopers ------ I thank the god of abraham that you guys are doing your job. Stutterers on this forum can take comfort that which is true and holy of stuttering is protected.
Your stuttering children and children’s stuttering children can continue on with the same bliss and joy you have experienced.

All those who read this post beware ---The Stutter Stormtroopers are seeking those who “perpetuate false beliefs “ of stuttering and watching those who differ and will expose you for the devious, and despicable persons you really are and defame, ridicule and slander your character and will chase you off this forum.

Rest assure you stuttering sheep on this forum who have no voice to speak your own opinions about your stutter, that you are all protected from the ‘wolves” who would under the guise of offering hope, relief and wellbeing with different point of views that are contrary and “despite the evidence” of that which is ‘factual” about stuttering.

The Stutter homeland is secure.

bw

[Adrian]

The Stutter Stormtroopers ------ I thank the god of abraham that you guys are doing your job. Stutterers on this forum can take comfort that which is true and holy of stuttering is protected.
Your stuttering children and children’s stuttering children can continue on with the same bliss and joy you have experienced.

All those who read this post beware ---The Stutter Stormtroopers are seeking those who “perpetuate false beliefs “ of stuttering and watching those who differ and will expose you for the devious, and despicable persons you really are and defame, ridicule and slander your character and will chase you off this forum.

Rest assure you stuttering sheep on this forum who have no voice to speak your own opinions about your stutter, that you are all protected from the ‘wolves” who would under the guise of offering hope, relief and wellbeing with different point of views that are contrary and “despite the evidence” of that which is ‘factual” about stuttering.

The Stutter homeland is secure.

bw

Bob,

Now who is turning a differing opinion into a personal attack? This is an unmoderated group and everyone has the right to express whatever opinion they like and everyone has the right to respond. Your comparison to stormtroopers is grossly unfair.

Adrian

[Adrian]

Conflict is important, its healthy and its normal. Carry on gents. And ladies.
Nathaniel

Thank you!

[JDRow]

The Stutter Stormtroopers ------ I thank the god of abraham that you guys are doing your job. Stutterers on this forum can take comfort that which is true and holy of stuttering is protected.
Your stuttering children and children’s stuttering children can continue on with the same bliss and joy you have experienced.

All those who read this post beware ---The Stutter Stormtroopers are seeking those who “perpetuate false beliefs “ of stuttering and watching those who differ and will expose you for the devious, and despicable persons you really are and defame, ridicule and slander your character and will chase you off this forum.

Rest assure you stuttering sheep on this forum who have no voice to speak your own opinions about your stutter, that you are all protected from the ‘wolves” who would under the guise of offering hope, relief and wellbeing with different point of views that are contrary and “despite the evidence” of that which is ‘factual” about stuttering.

The Stutter homeland is secure.

bw

As useful as it is to compare people who don't share your point of view to Nazis, it might be more helpful to actually engage in an exchange of views.

You believe that stuttering is caused by psychological problems. I think that's a false belief, because there has been a lot of research done, and it's all indicated that that simply isn't true.

Why do you believe that the research and evidence are wrong, and that stuttering is in fact caused by psychological problems? Why do you think believing that would give more hope to stutterers? Why do you think that belief would make life happier and better for stutterers, when it was the prevailing view for a very long time and that wasn't the result then? What benefits do you think there are to believing that stuttering is caused by being psychologically flawed, and why do you think there's a good basis for ignoring the research indicating otherwise?

These are genuine questions. I'd like to know what you think about them. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but it's nice to know the reasons why somebody holds the opinion they do.

[andrewg818]

JD-- Thoughts do not recreate past realities or the realities of others--i..e what happened before.. There is only the present moment--the here and now--and thoughts shape your experience.

[JDRow]

thoughts shape your experience.

That's very different from saying that thoughts create reality, though.

[nate]

JD-- Thoughts do not recreate past realities or the realities of others--i..e what happened before.. There is only the present moment--the here and now--and thoughts shape your experience.

What has this got to do with the price of oil in fish market man?
Sorry, I dont get it.
Nate

[andrewg818]

I was responding to the assertion that thoughts cannot change history [i.e. the age of the Earth]--Although, even Einstein that time was relative, essentially illusion, and had no real tangible property in the g rand scheme of the universe