talking to yourself?

[Milan]

I’ve got a question which I think is the one of the keys to understand stuttering and treat it.
Why don’t I stutter when I speak to myself? (like most stutterers) but only when I speak with other people, if it’s face to face or by the phone. It’s scaring me a lot. I am 100% fluent when i speak to myself. I can say all the words / sentences I otherwise have problems with. So when our brain knows we are talking to someone it programs to stutter and to have blocks. I really don’t understand that, can someone explain why?

[danja087]

hey milan i have the same problem too..and i dont know whyy

[Bokonon]

That's a great observation, and I think it has been made on this forum before, although described a bit differently. Unfortunately I don't think anyone in this forum or otherwise can explain it. I've come to accept that speech is a much more complicated process than it usually seems, and any mis-shaped cog along the way could block the whole process, or at least make it run less fluently. When I'm speaking to myself alone, I may not stutter, but I'm also not worrying about tone, pitch, inflection, enunciation, or even if what I'm saying makes any sense at all. Maybe by defining which stumbling blocks are removed when talking alone, might reveal the speech processes that cause the most trouble. But I'm not sure I'd want to talk to people in a way that freed me from things like enunciation, inflection, yelling at someone vs mumbling, or worrying about whether what I'm saying means anything at all ;)

[emily445455]

I have no idea why I don't stutter when I talk to myself.

BUt I do sometimes stutter when I talk to my dog *shurg*

[Jamus]

I used to not stutter at all when I talked to myself. Nowadays, even though overall, my speech is better, I do stutter when I talk to myself. Weirdness.

[maxamillion]

Have you guys ever tried whispering? Try speaking but in a soft whisper voice. When we whisper we don't use our vocal cords, which means they can not "lock up" which results in stuttering.

I believe stuttering is both neurological and physical. The locking of our vocal cords is physically whats happening to us and the effect is us struggling to get words out which other people perceive as stuttering.
Do you guys stutter when you just mouth words?? No, that's basically what whispering is but we are using our tongue, lips and mouth to manipulate the air we're breathing out to sound like words without the use of our vocal cords. When we speak (stutter) normally our speech is just the result of our vocal cords vibrating and then we use our mouths to alter those vibrations into words. Well we can do the same thing just using air.
Not using our vocal cords = no stuttering. ???
Of course the downside is you have to be in a quite room and rather close to the person your speaking to so they can hear you.

Its just a thought I came up with a few days ago and wanted to share, what do you guys think?

[Loriner925]

It is strange, I don't stutter when I talk to myself....:confused:

[danalorenzana]

you know what's weird?
i severely stutter, even when i talk to myself. i am a firm believer in God, and i have discovered that every time i pray or talk in front of my youth group about God, i dion't stutter.
i have a feeling God going to work with me through this.

but yeah... ITS SO WEIRD.

[couture57]

I don't stutter when I talk to myself, either. I guess that's why I talk to myself a LOT. I'm alone a great deal of the time, anyway (when hubby is at work and son is at school, or when I'm here in the bat and it "feels" like there's no one else around) so it has become a habit. So much that I find myself doing it even when I am out in public, like shopping by myself or something. I catch myself doing it and I think, oh, people must think I am one of those loonies who talks to themselves... :)

I also don't usually stutter when I talk to my animals, although I used to block frequently when I would go to the front door to call my dog. (Doggie passed away a couple of months ago) I talk to my cats all the time and never stutter.

I think nearly all stutterers have no trouble when they sing. I've heard a lot of theories on why this is so - the one that makes the most sense to me is that singing is done from a different area of the brain than regular speech. The idea is that the problem that causes stuttering, whatever it is, only exists in one specific area of the brain. Also there is the obvious point that when we sing, we are actually using all the best speech therapy techniques. Controlled breathing, easy onset, connecting words witout allowing breaks between them, etc. It just seems to come naturally when we are singing, whereas it doesn't when we are talking.

I'm very musical - I play several instuments and was a fairly good singer when I was younger. My son who stutters is very talented musically, and he loves to perform. It's so freeing to know that you have that one public situation where you can prove to people that there is nothing "wrong" with you, mentally or otherwise, you just stutter when you talk. Is anyone else here like that?

Sometimes if I concentrate real hard I can "pretend" I am talking to myself (mentally block out the other person's presense) and I am slightly more fluent.

[Count]

you know what's weird?
i severely stutter, even when i talk to myself. i am a firm believer in God, and i have discovered that every time i pray or talk in front of my youth group about God, i dion't stutter.
i have a feeling God going to work with me through this.

but yeah... ITS SO WEIRD.


I gave up on god many years ago because he never listened to me. Then I turned to Taoism.

[happy7117]

If god was good, he would have gave none of us a stammer!

[happy7117]

If we don't stutter when talking to ourselves, why do we talking to people???

Is it we are apprehensive talking to others, but not ourselves????

Are we insecure with others and secure with ourselves..??

I don't get it.

Where are the right answers when we want them.:D

[emily445455]

you know what's weird?
i severely stutter, even when i talk to myself. i am a firm believer in God, and i have discovered that every time i pray or talk in front of my youth group about God, i dion't stutter.
i have a feeling God going to work with me through this.

but yeah... ITS SO WEIRD.

I don't stutter when I'm talking to God alone, but I do when I'm praying with someone else. It's weird. I stutter a lot when I'm telling someone else about Jesus too...I think because I'm nervous and I want to say everything 100% correct.

happy- God didn't cause our stuttering, he just allowed it. Why? I don't know, He has a plan and it's too big for me to understand :)

Count- God doesn't listen to the prayers of the non-Christians (may sound harsh, but it makes sense, the Lost are not His children). But, He would looooooooove to talk with you if you accept Christ, He would absolutely love it.
:)

[Count]

Count- God doesn't listen to the prayers of the non-Christians (may sound harsh, but it makes sense, the Lost are not His children). But, He would looooooooove to talk with you if you accept Christ, He would absolutely love it.
:)


Sorry, but this statement is so extremely American Christian fanatic-like that I feel like vomitting right now. I hope for your own sake that this was a joke, otherwise I have to worry about what kind of strange beliefs people in the US have nowadays.
First of all god usually listens to everyone because that's his job. He chose this job voluntarily, so he must love it.
Secondly that's the reason why I HATE Christianity to the fullest. And it's also the reason why I got a Bhuddist/Taoist and friend of all Asian philosophy because that's where the truth is. No one tells you what to do, no one discriminates against each other, and the best thing is there are no fanatics who tick you off. Because that's what Christians are, just a crazy bunch of very dangerous fanatics. I hope this will change soon.


Sorry, this had nothing to do with the board issues, but when I read such strong stuff like Emily stated then I start feeling nauseated.

[couture57]

Count, not all American Christians feel the way the previous poster does. To blacken us all with the same brush is the same kind of stereotyping and prejudice we fight against as stutterers.

[emily445455]

Sorry, but this statement is so extremely American Christian fanatic-like that I feel like vomitting right now. I hope for your own sake that this was a joke, otherwise I have to worry about what kind of strange beliefs people in the US have nowadays.
First of all god usually listens to everyone because that's his job. He chose this job voluntarily, so he must love it.
Secondly that's the reason why I HATE Christianity to the fullest. And it's also the reason why I got a Bhuddist/Taoist and friend of all Asian philosophy because that's where the truth is. No one tells you what to do, no one discriminates against each other, and the best thing is there are no fanatics who tick you off. Because that's what Christians are, just a crazy bunch of very dangerous fanatics. I hope this will change soon.


Sorry, this had nothing to do with the board issues, but when I read such strong stuff like Emily stated then I start feeling nauseated.

Actually the majority of Americans do not believe in the BIble :(

I'll look for that verse for you...may take me awhile :)

[emily445455]

here's one:

Psalms 66:18 18If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

There were more, but this was one the most clear :)

[peebee]

Before I you read this post, I'm not directing this at anyone on this thread and you should know I respect and appreciate every human being regardless of religion. That being said, the bible (in my opinion) is EXTREMELY flawed and evangelical Christians have cult-like characters that have committed crimes far greater then Hitler and Mussolini combined for centuries.

I've read the bible and I use to go to church everyday, when I matured and actually began to think critically reading the bible was like reading a fairy tale. I don't understand how someone can actually believe word-for-word the amount of BS, lies and inconsistencies are in the bible. You could literally read the bible page by page and point out thousands of inconsistencies, prejudices, ironies etc... I guess it's called 'blind faith' for a reason.

There's a reason why studies have shown the direct relation between intelligence and belief. the rise of education and intellect in the 19th and 20th century also increased atheism. I don't understand how people can ignore these facts... As Matt Damon said about Sarah Palin... 'Does she honestly think dinosaurs roamed the earth with men 6,000 years ago?'

Sorry if I offended anyone

[emily445455]

Sorry you feel that way:)

And no, I don't believe dinosaurs roamed the earth with men. :)

[couture57]

I must be weird - I'm an active member of an evangelical Christian denomination, but I was taught to think for myself and not follow anyone blindly. I was also taught that the Bible was inspired by God, but it was still written by men with an obvious agenda in many instances. And it was men who decided what writings would be included in this book. It is not a book of science, nor is it strictly a book of history, and should not be construed that way. It is a book that tells us how we should live, often with the use of allegory and parable. But it also gives a lot of instruction ( mostly in the Old Testament) that was speaking to the social and political climate of the times, perhaps not to be taken literally for all time to come.

If all Christians followed it word for word, the women would all have hair down to their ankles, because the Bible tells us to never cut it. :)

Getting back to the subject at hand, I believe God gave humans the power and skills to conquer the imperfections that have developed in our universe, and therefore I believe that He will allow us to one day figure out this stuttering thing, and find a way to fix it.

I just wish I felt it would happen in my lifetime. I've probably only got 25-30 years left, so hurry up, guys! :)

[Count]

As Matt Damon said about Sarah Palin... 'Does she honestly think dinosaurs roamed the earth with men 6,000 years ago?'


You forget that Sarah Palin is a retarded person. No one should laugh at retarded people, they are who they are as I am what I am.

[nate]

You forget that Sarah Palin is a retarded person. No one should laugh at retarded people, they are who they are as I am what I am.

"The world is what it is and u are who u are"
Don Domenico Delano
The last don
Mario Puzo

Excellent quote

[danalorenzana]

I don't stutter when I'm talking to God alone, but I do when I'm praying with someone else. It's weird. I stutter a lot when I'm telling someone else about Jesus too...I think because I'm nervous and I want to say everything 100% correct.

happy- God didn't cause our stuttering, he just allowed it. Why? I don't know, He has a plan and it's too big for me to understand :)

Count- God doesn't listen to the prayers of the non-Christians (may sound harsh, but it makes sense, the Lost are not His children). But, He would looooooooove to talk with you if you accept Christ, He would absolutely love it.
:)

sometimes i get scared when i talk to others about Jesus cause i block a lot. it's usually 1 on 1 talks that i do. but yeah i completely know what you mean and agree

[Jeff99]

this is my own thought but i think when we speak to ourselves there is not pressure there is no fear we are free to be who we want.

when talking to others it's like we go into a child like state like we have to talk up to everyone esle like they are important an we dare not make a mistake so we put all this pressure on ourselves and the fear increases an we panic and try to hard. it's like we place everyone higher than us like we are a child talking to an angry adult. trying to hard to be prefect, trying to fit in alot of reason i guess.

[TenaciousD]

I’ve got a question which I think is the one of the keys to understand stuttering and treat it.
Why don’t I stutter when I speak to myself? (like most stutterers) but only when I speak with other people, if it’s face to face or by the phone. It’s scaring me a lot. I am 100% fluent when i speak to myself. I can say all the words / sentences I otherwise have problems with. So when our brain knows we are talking to someone it programs to stutter and to have blocks. I really don’t understand that, can someone explain why?

I think that this has something to do with our bodies sympathetic nervous system. It is always active at a basal level (called sympathetic tone) and becomes more active during times of stress. When under stress the sympathetic nervous system is responsible for the fight-or-flight response. My own personal theory is that stutterers tense there laryngeal muscles when under stress. Everybody has a physical reaction to stress. Some peoples hands quiver... some peoples forehead sweats profusely... etc. I think that if we can somehow train our bodies to keep the reaction of our sympathetic nervous system to a minimum when under stress than we would always speak as though we were by ourselves.

[couture57]

I think that this has something to do with our bodies sympathetic nervous system. It is always active at a basal level (called sympathetic tone) and becomes more active during times of stress. When under stress the sympathetic nervous system is responsible for the fight-or-flight response. My own personal theory is that stutterers tense there laryngeal muscles when under stress. Everybody has a physical reaction to stress. Some peoples hands quiver... some peoples forehead sweats profusely... etc. I think that if we can somehow train our bodies to keep the reaction of our sympathetic nervous system to a minimum when under stress than we would always speak as though we were by ourselves.


If that's true (and it does make sense) then the larger question becomes - why do we feel so much more stress when speaking than other people do? I mean, some of us stutter when we talk to our pets, for cryin' out loud. Certainly not a stress-producing situation.

[Count]

I mean, some of us stutter when we talk to our pets.

Very true. I stutter when talking to my cat and this has nothing to do with stress.

[TenaciousD]

If that's true (and it does make sense) then the larger question becomes - why do we feel so much more stress when speaking than other people do? I mean, some of us stutter when we talk to our pets, for cryin' out loud. Certainly not a stress-producing situation.

I have a heart rate monitor and it amazes me when I pay attention to it throughout the day.... the littlest change in a situation and my heart rate will jump up like 25 to 30 beats higher than what it is when Im relaxed and by myself. And what is strange is that I really don't feel all that nervous most of the time... Ide say that my sympathetic nervous system isn't any more active than the average nonstutterer... Ide even venture to say that the average stutterer has the same amount of sympathetic tone activity as everybody else... but the difference is that we are genetically predispositioned to tense our laryngeal muscles every time are sympathetic tone increases (the more stress the more intense are blocks are going to be). Whereas other people that don't stutter... their sympathetic tone can increase greatly but they dont stutter or their voice doesn't even quiver because their body doesn't react to stress that way. ( Although there knees may tremble or they may start sweating profusely on their forehead. But the fact is that a healthy person's sympathetic nervous system is active and it doesn't take much stress or fear to increase the sympathetic tone. Which really makes things tough for us stutterers.

[Milan]

I think that this has something to do with our bodies sympathetic nervous system. It is always active at a basal level (called sympathetic tone) and becomes more active during times of stress. When under stress the sympathetic nervous system is responsible for the fight-or-flight response. My own personal theory is that stutterers tense there laryngeal muscles when under stress. Everybody has a physical reaction to stress. Some peoples hands quiver... some peoples forehead sweats profusely... etc. I think that if we can somehow train our bodies to keep the reaction of our sympathetic nervous system to a minimum when under stress than we would always speak as though we were by ourselves.

Just browsed the forum and got chocked when I saw 2 pages on my thread, which i started a month ago. At that time I checked it for a couple of days but no answers, so I thought nobody cared. But WOW so many answers it got now and theories :) I must say that your theory Tenacious makes so much sense and I really believe it could be the answer to what causes stuttering.

When I am alone talking to myself I feel no stress, I am 100% comfortable and relaxed and at that point I can speak 100% fluently. But as Tenacious says as soon as we speak to people the stress level goes up, because we know that’s when our stutter starts (that transition is automatic, we don’t think about it) and in the stutters case causes the laryngeal muscle to tense. ( "The laryngeal muscle also called larynx houses the vocal folds and from there sound is generated and where pitch and volume are manipulated." (taken from Wikipedia)) And guess what when I stutter (in my case having blocks) I always feel that tension in my throat, I can’t get any air out, its blocked...with this knowledge together with my common sense tells me that it must be the larynx that’s contracting and getting tense.

So according to Tenacious theory our sympathetic nervous system becomes more active during times of stress which in the stutterers case sends signals to the larynx to contract and become tense thus causing blocks in our speech. I MEAN SERIOUSLY THAT’S THE ANSWER TO OUR PROBLEM!

Now my theory is that we need to access the sympathetic nervous system and together with the situation (speaking to people) that’s causing our stress, to change the nervous system to not send signals to the larynx and get stressed when in those situations.many of you think “that’s impossible” But I don’t think so, I believe that we can access our nervous system with EFT (www.emofree.com) with the right tapping and addressing it right we can target the problem and start improving.

[couture57]

TenaciousD, your explanation does make sense. I've often wondered about that - I mean, everyone gets nervous and stressed. Why does it cause this to happen only in certain people? I guess that's what some of the research is about.

I just meant that it doesn't make sense that we sometimes stutter in situations where stress just isn't a factor, or doesn't seem to be, anyway.

Dare I say it - can some of it be "habit" ?

[Milan]

Just browsed the forum and got chocked when I saw 2 pages on my thread, which i started a month ago. At that time I checked it for a couple of days but no answers, so I thought nobody cared. But WOW so many answers it got now and theories :) I must say that your theory Tenacious makes so much sense and I really believe it could be the answer to what causes stuttering.

When I am alone talking to myself I feel no stress, I am 100% comfortable and relaxed and at that point I can speak 100% fluently. But as Tenacious says as soon as we speak to people the stress level goes up, because we know that’s when our stutter starts (that transition is automatic, we don’t think about it) and in the stutters case causes the laryngeal muscle to tense. ( "The laryngeal muscle also called larynx houses the vocal folds and from there sound is generated and where pitch and volume are manipulated." (taken from Wikipedia)) And guess what when I stutter (in my case having blocks) I always feel that tension in my throat, I can’t get any air out, its blocked...with this knowledge together with my common sense tells me that it must be the larynx that’s contracting and getting tense.

So according to Tenacious theory our sympathetic nervous system becomes more active during times of stress which in the stutterers case sends signals to the larynx to contract and become tense thus causing blocks in our speech. I MEAN SERIOUSLY THAT’S THE ANSWER TO OUR PROBLEM!

Now my theory is that we need to access the sympathetic nervous system and together with the situation (speaking to people) that’s causing our stress, to change the nervous system to not send signals to the larynx and get stressed when in those situations.many of you think “that’s impossible” But I don’t think so, I believe that we can access our nervous system with EFT (www.emofree.com) with the right tapping and addressing it right we can target the problem and start improving.


Iam not as sure that EFT would work as I am sure that this theory is the cause of stuttering. But what do you guys think about it? I mean it sure explains why we dont stutter when we talk to ourselves and it explains why we get blocks in our speech and that tight feeling in the throat (no air) when the blocks occur.

[Breadfish]

Overactivation/hyperstimulation of the sympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system could well play a part in stuttering. But personally I dont think it's nearly sufficient to explain stuttering universally. Like people have mentioned in this post, many people still stutter in moments of relaxation, as in talking to themselves, although of course, many don't. However at the same time, it wouldn't be necessary that a person would consciously recognise that activation of sympathetic fibres innervating their articulatory organs, notably the laryngeal muscles, is occurring. The sympathetic nervous system isn't a single synchronously acting entity, ie, sympathetic fibres innervating one organ system of the body can be stimulated while those innervating another organ system are not. And this activation wouldn't have to coincide with conscious recognition that a person is becoming stressed. There could be a feedback to the sympathetic ANS with the activation of any of the muscles involved in articulation/phonation, which may resultantly increase muscle tone of muscles involved in voice production. Anyway, that's all theoretical, but yeah, definite possibility that something like that may be present in some stutterers.

My favourite theory which is an attempt to explain why stutterers often experience marked increases in fluency when talking to themselves is to do with auditory processing.
Stuttering can be induced in people without a stutter if their own speech is delayed slightly electronically, in a manner similar to DAF. Also, as most of you are probably aware, stutterers tend to be much more fluent when they cannot hear their own voice, or when it is delayed somewhat.
Studies have also shown that stutterers tend to have longer reaction times to stimuli which require them to respond in a manner which involves the use of their articulatory/phonatory organs, as well as in a manner that does not. ie, a subject is shown a word on a screen and has to repeat the word, or has to move their lips, or just has to move his or her finger in some sort of way. Stutterers have been shown to have longer reaction times in these sorts of experiments.

So it's quite clear that the problem does not lie solely in the production of sound, that's much too simplistic when considering the nervous system. The output of the nervous system relies on its input to guide its output. If the input, or the way the input is being processed, is in some way inefficient, then the output potentially is also.

One difference between a situation where a stutterer is talking to themselves, and where they are in an active speaking situation with another individual, is that in the first scenario the stutterer does not have to respond to an external cue. When talking with another person a stutterer is required to process auditory information and with this auditory information guide the appropriate muscles to make the appropriate movements to make the appropriate sounds. Stutterers have already been shown to be less efficient, in terms of reaction times, than non-stutterers in this. I don't know if there's any other evidence, and the reaction time thing alone is far from sufficient to suggest this theory as true in any kind of an authoritative manner. It's just an idea.

But the thing is, when I read to myself, I stutter maybe 1/1000 words(idk?), which is probably a fluency equal to or greater than most non-stutterers. However, when I am in a speaking situation with other people, which requires me to actively take in information, process it, and decide upon appropriate responses, I have blocks and repetitions.


Though I can't think of anything to explain why masking a stutterer's voice so that they can't hear it reduces stuttering while at the same time when a stutterer talks to himself he can obviously hear his own voice plain and clear, yet has a tendency to stammer much less than when talking to other people.
In my opinion a combination of nerves,(ie, overactive Sympathetic activity to articulatory/phonatory organs) and abnormal auditory processing could contribute to stuttering. There really are a THOUSAND places in the production of speech where one fault could cause the entire machine to fall to bits. And there's many known neurophysical abnormalities present in stutterers, ie, hyperactive presynaptic dopaminergic activity in particular areas(excess of a particular neurotransmitter chemical in some areas), hemispheric bilateralisation(where functions that are normally active in the Left Hemisphere are active in the Right Hemisphere), overactivity of particular areas important for speech, and underactivity of others.