Fluency 2: The Word.

[Asif]

When did we first become aware of getting hung up on words?

When we see a painting, do we see the individual brushstrokes?
No. We were never meant to.
We see the picture itself.
We may or may not like the picture, but it is what it is: a statement.
You can't argue with a picture.

When we get hung up on a word, the only thing that we see is the word itself.
A wall. An obstacle to be overcome.
All meaning is lost as we go into tunnel vision mode.
All we can see is that damn word, set against an ocean of chaos.

And then the never-ending succession of words that stand between us and the idea we had hoped to convey.
Somewhere along the way, the meaning is lost.
All we see are words.

The first lines of the Bible say:
"In The Beginning there was The Word.
And The Word was God."
Have you ever wondered what that meant?

What if whoever wrote that, made the first typo in the history of mankind?
How would things have turned out for the world if it had actually said:
"And The Word was Good" ?

What I see on this forum is a lot of very angry people,
pretending to be well-adjusted and "nice".
They like all the "right" things.
They hate all the "wrong" things.
Well: there is nothing wrong with being angry.
Being unable to speak like other people tends to have that effect.

But why bother trying to appear to be "nice" ?
Either you are or you are not,
but either way, if you are not, you may become so at any moment.
Appearing to be, is not the same as being.

Some years ago, Political Correctness - PC - appeared seemingly out of nowhere, and started inverting the meaning of words. For generations, words had meant what they meant. Everyone knew the meaning of words. Now we don't. Words no longer convey precise meanings. Often they mean the very opposite of what they once did.

New words have suddenly appeared that had no purpose or reason in the past.
And disturbingly, these new words are on everyone's lips, and are accorded an importance that seems a bit far-fetched to say the least.
When there is no Good, politicians make the rules. For their own dubious benefit.

The effect of this can be readily seen.
I have become very aware that no matter what I write, the message is rarely received. Not only are the words as big an issue as they have always been to stutterers, but now - in addition - each word carries an emotional trigger, that sets the reader off on some sidetrack, beautifully diverting attention away from the meaning.
The Book of Revelations has quite a lot to say about this recent phenomenon.

What I see on this forum is a Christian or two, endlessly poked at in an attempt to coax them to admit the foolishness of their beliefs and turn them into "free-thinking" clones of the atheists, who seem to need frequent affirmation that their non-belief is the right choice.
I would say being a Christian is a good start on the road to fluency.
Because it provides an infallible ally.
The value of that can not be underestimated.

I like the idea of a misnamed God being called Good.

The Hebrew Good is called Yahweh.
Yahweh = I Am.
Good created all of us in his image, so the story goes.
So we too = I Am.
People who deny the existence of Good isolate themselves from a principle that includes them in the secret of life. They can end up feeling alone and outside of things.

But "I Am" means that there IS no outside.
I Am, and It is Me. I Am It. And It is Good.
That is why - even if there were no such thing as Good - it would benefit all of us to choose to believe that there was.
Certainly it could do no harm.

We may have issues with religion: I certainly do.
But religions are man-made things.
Good existed before mankind, and will always exist.

So what is this about?
It might be true to say that stuttering is a major problem for us.
Or we would mostly not be concerned with it.
It makes sense to align ourselves with Good.
Face it: "free-thinking" along with all the other crude tools of mankind hasn't worked too well so far, has it?

I can only suggest a re-think of the proudly-held view that atheism is somehow enlightened.

And finally: may I ask you to please read the above as a whole, rather than react emotionally over individual words?

[Violet]

When did we first become aware of getting hung up on words?
When we see a painting, do we see the individual brushstrokes?
No. We were never meant to.
We see the picture itself.
We may or may not like the picture, but it is what it is: a statement.
You can't argue with a picture.


In some art movements you are meant to see the individual brushstrokes :p - i certainly see them and appreciate them :D

but yes, i did rather like your post, and it is true, it is easier to be fluent if you arn't so caught up on each and every singular word.. i find that if i just steam roll through, focusing on the message rather than the words, when i stutter i move on to the next word so quickly that hardly anyone notices and it isnt such a big deal cause people are to busy listening to what i'm saying. :cool:

[sst]

I'm a homoual, I can't read this. ;) Is that right?

Does the British National Party allow stutterers? Doesn't that go against the "perfect Aryan race" viewpoint your group holds? Oh, wait, wrong Nationalist party.

[Asif]

I'm a homoual, I can't read this. ;) Is that right?

Does the British National Party allow stutterers? Doesn't that go against the "perfect Aryan race" viewpoint your group holds? Oh, wait, wrong Nationalist party.

Not worth a reply

[JDRow]

Do you have some evidence that atheists stutter at a higher rate than people who believe in God?

[Asif]

Do you have some evidence that atheists stutter at a higher rate than people who believe in God?

No I don't.
But my own fluency most likely would never have come about without my own knowing of God.
Attaining fluency is a sequence of events, as opposed to a "cure".
You have to start somewhere.
If you already are able to completely believe in something, it is not so difficult to believe in your own healing.

[JDRow]

But my own fluency most likely would never have come about without my own knowing of God.

But you've said you still stutter, so it sounds like your stutter improved when you came to know God.

My stutter improved when I gave up some very rigid, absolute beliefs in God and took a more agnostic position. But, I'm not going to tell anybody that becoming agnostic is going to make them fluent, or cause them to stutter less, or have any effect either way on their stuttering.

Without evidence that there is a correlation between religious belief and stuttering severity, your just relating your own experience (as everybody here does) and are not giving lessons in fluency.

[Asif]

Without evidence that there is a correlation between religious belief and stuttering severity, your just relating your own experience (as everybody here does) and are not giving lessons in fluency.

When are you going to understand that I am not here to give anybody lessons?
Where did all this "guru" talk come from anyway?
Certainly not from me.

I am here to share what works for me. One way or another.
You may not be interested, but there are those who are.

I say again: I have gone from being maybe 1% fluent to being 98% fluent.
That might suggest I know something you don't.

[JDRow]

When are you going to understand that I am not here to give anybody lessons?

There's the title of your posts: Fluency 1 and Fluency 2. And then there's this:

I say again: I have gone from being maybe 1% fluent to being 98% fluent.
That might suggest I know something you don't.

I know a whole lot of people I respect and admire who are fluent just about 100% of the time, and so if I'm going to take advice from somebody because they stutter less than I do, I'll take it from them.

Why do you discount any experience that differs from your own? I had a very firm, absolute belief in God for most of my life. My stutter improved during a time period where I questioned that belief and came to a much less certain position. I don't know if there's a God or not, and I'm okay with that. I don't think, though, that agnosticism has improved my stuttering. I'm not sure why you'd jump to that conclusion regarding your own experience.

You're cling that a belief in God will lead to fluency. I'm saying that, if you know something we don't, then evidence should bear that out. Find a study showing that atheists stutter more than religious people. Maybe then it will seem like you do know something others don't.

[Asif]

What can I say?
98% isn't good enough.
I don't have the credentials.
I think some of you don't understand the meaning of forums.
They are not courtrooms or lynchings.
As far as the motto of this forum is concerned:
"Together we can help each other",
maybe the meaning just somehow slipped away.

If anyone in the future reads any of my posts and is interested, please email me.
I have no more time for this.

[JDRow]

If you're open to taking advice, perhaps just sharing your experiences like everybody else here does, rather than setting yourself up as one who will impart great wisdom to us if we only want it badly enough, would be a better way to interact here.

[sst]

I seem to recall him withholding his wisdom from us. What made you change your mind? Why, now, are we worthy of your time and effort?

[chris2112]

When did we first become aware of getting hung up on words?

When we see a painting, do we see the individual brushstrokes?
No. We were never meant to.
We see the picture itself.
We may or may not like the picture, but it is what it is: a statement.
You can't argue with a picture.

When we get hung up on a word, the only thing that we see is the word itself.
A wall. An obstacle to be overcome.
All meaning is lost as we go into tunnel vision mode.
All we can see is that damn word, set against an ocean of chaos.

And then the never-ending succession of words that stand between us and the idea we had hoped to convey.
Somewhere along the way, the meaning is lost.
All we see are words.

The first lines of the Bible say:
"In The Beginning there was The Word.
And The Word was God."
Have you ever wondered what that meant?

What if whoever wrote that, made the first typo in the history of mankind?
How would things have turned out for the world if it had actually said:
"And The Word was Good" ?

What I see on this forum is a lot of very angry people,
pretending to be well-adjusted and "nice".
They like all the "right" things.
They hate all the "wrong" things.
Well: there is nothing wrong with being angry.
Being unable to speak like other people tends to have that effect.

But why bother trying to appear to be "nice" ?
Either you are or you are not,
but either way, if you are not, you may become so at any moment.
Appearing to be, is not the same as being.

Some years ago, Political Correctness - PC - appeared seemingly out of nowhere, and started inverting the meaning of words. For generations, words had meant what they meant. Everyone knew the meaning of words. Now we don't. Words no longer convey precise meanings. Often they mean the very opposite of what they once did.

New words have suddenly appeared that had no purpose or reason in the past.
And disturbingly, these new words are on everyone's lips, and are accorded an importance that seems a bit far-fetched to say the least.
When there is no Good, politicians make the rules. For their own dubious benefit.

The effect of this can be readily seen.
I have become very aware that no matter what I write, the message is rarely received. Not only are the words as big an issue as they have always been to stutterers, but now - in addition - each word carries an emotional trigger, that sets the reader off on some sidetrack, beautifully diverting attention away from the meaning.
The Book of Revelations has quite a lot to say about this recent phenomenon.

What I see on this forum is a Christian or two, endlessly poked at in an attempt to coax them to admit the foolishness of their beliefs and turn them into "free-thinking" clones of the atheists, who seem to need frequent affirmation that their non-belief is the right choice.
I would say being a Christian is a good start on the road to fluency.
Because it provides an infallible ally.
The value of that can not be underestimated.

I like the idea of a misnamed God being called Good.

The Hebrew Good is called Yahweh.
Yahweh = I Am.
Good created all of us in his image, so the story goes.
So we too = I Am.
People who deny the existence of Good isolate themselves from a principle that includes them in the secret of life. They can end up feeling alone and outside of things.

But "I Am" means that there IS no outside.
I Am, and It is Me. I Am It. And It is Good.
That is why - even if there were no such thing as Good - it would benefit all of us to choose to believe that there was.
Certainly it could do no harm.

We may have issues with religion: I certainly do.
But religions are man-made things.
Good existed before mankind, and will always exist.

So what is this about?
It might be true to say that stuttering is a major problem for us.
Or we would mostly not be concerned with it.
It makes sense to align ourselves with Good.
Face it: "free-thinking" along with all the other crude tools of mankind hasn't worked too well so far, has it?

I can only suggest a re-think of the proudly-held view that atheism is somehow enlightened.

And finally: may I ask you to please read the above as a whole, rather than react emotionally over individual words?

Are you saying aligning yourself with good is beliving in god? I am agnostic which means that I admit I have no idea how or why were here. What I do know is that everything that exists is inseperable with everything else that exists. With this Idea you can say that everything that exists is essentialy one force, one energy. With that Idea the importance of the greater good comes naturaly, I dont need the fear of gods punishment or anticipation of gods reward to make me want to do good for everything around me, because in essence we are a part of the same thing.

You say "People who deny the existence of Good isolate themselves from a principle that includes them in the secret of life. They can end up feeling alone and outside of things."
I dont know what you mean by good but If you mean the belife in god then your wrong. The belife that you know why were here and how we got here covers up the secret of life. Humans are ment to freethink, to explore, and question widely held belifes, Its called being a human. The only reason humans exist is because monkeys became more and more curious about there world haha. Honestly, I have no Idea how this has to do anything with stuttering. The belife in god will not help your stuttering. I would never be able to belive in god, am I doomed to stuttering for life now?

[Paranoid]

Are you saying aligning yourself with good is beliving in god? I am agnostic which means that I admit I have no idea how or why were here. What I do know is that everything that exists is inseperable with everything else that exists. With this Idea you can say that everything that exists is essentialy one force, one energy. With that Idea the importance of the greater good comes naturaly, I dont need the fear of gods punishment or anticipation of gods reward to make me want to do good for everything around me, because in essence we are a part of the same thing.

You say "People who deny the existence of Good isolate themselves from a principle that includes them in the secret of life. They can end up feeling alone and outside of things."
I dont know what you mean by good but If you mean the belife in god then your wrong. The belife that you know why were here and how we got here covers up the secret of life. Humans are ment to freethink, to explore, and question widely held belifes, Its called being a human. The only reason humans exist is because monkeys became more and more curious about there world haha. Honestly, I have no Idea how this has to do anything with stuttering. The belife in god will not help your stuttering. I would never be able to belive in god, am I doomed to stuttering for life now?


Chris, I agree! check your typo btw bro...

I say BLAME IT ON GOD!

[chris2112]

Chris, I agree! check your typo btw bro...

I say BLAME IT ON GOD!

LOL no not at all. I dont deny theres a god either, I cant say either way. I think extream atheists who belive that there certainly is no god are doing the same thing that religous people are doing, there beliving in something they cannot prove. I certainly dont have anything agaisnt people who belive in god, I just dont think its nessisary to live by good morals, relize that life is much deeper and infinitly greater then just you or just humans for that matter, and certainly not nessisary for fluency.

[Asif]

I just dont think its nessisary to live by good morals.

Hmmm.
I foresee a tough time ahead.

[chris2112]

Hmmm.
I foresee a tough time ahead.

What do you mean? I really think you can relize good morals without faith in dogma.

[Asif]

What do you mean? I really think you can relize good morals without faith in dogma.

That makes much more sense.
Accuracy helps your message across.

[chris2112]

That makes much more sense.
Accuracy helps your message across.

Yeah thanks lol, I do pretty much suck at writing.

[sst]

Don't forget, Asif is the standard-bearer for good morals. :)

[Asif]

Lalalala la la la lalalala lala la la

[Asif]

Don't forget, Asif is the standard-bearer for good morals. :)

After due consideration of what appears to be your unchanging, never-ending attacks upon anything and everything I write, this is the only response you will ever get from me.
You are evidently a masochist and I will not give you pleasure ever again.
Asif.

[nate]

When did we first become aware of getting hung up on words?

When we see a painting, do we see the individual brushstrokes?
No. We were never meant to.
We see the picture itself.
We may or may not like the picture, but it is what it is: a statement.
You can't argue with a picture.

When we get hung up on a word, the only thing that we see is the word itself.
A wall. An obstacle to be overcome.
All meaning is lost as we go into tunnel vision mode.
All we can see is that damn word, set against an ocean of chaos.

And then the never-ending succession of words that stand between us and the idea we had hoped to convey.
Somewhere along the way, the meaning is lost.
All we see are words.

The first lines of the Bible say:
"In The Beginning there was The Word.
And The Word was God."
Have you ever wondered what that meant?

What if whoever wrote that, made the first typo in the history of mankind?
How would things have turned out for the world if it had actually said:
"And The Word was Good" ?

What I see on this forum is a lot of very angry people,
pretending to be well-adjusted and "nice".
They like all the "right" things.
They hate all the "wrong" things.
Well: there is nothing wrong with being angry.
Being unable to speak like other people tends to have that effect.

But why bother trying to appear to be "nice" ?
Either you are or you are not,
but either way, if you are not, you may become so at any moment.
Appearing to be, is not the same as being.

Some years ago, Political Correctness - PC - appeared seemingly out of nowhere, and started inverting the meaning of words. For generations, words had meant what they meant. Everyone knew the meaning of words. Now we don't. Words no longer convey precise meanings. Often they mean the very opposite of what they once did.

New words have suddenly appeared that had no purpose or reason in the past.
And disturbingly, these new words are on everyone's lips, and are accorded an importance that seems a bit far-fetched to say the least.
When there is no Good, politicians make the rules. For their own dubious benefit.

The effect of this can be readily seen.
I have become very aware that no matter what I write, the message is rarely received. Not only are the words as big an issue as they have always been to stutterers, but now - in addition - each word carries an emotional trigger, that sets the reader off on some sidetrack, beautifully diverting attention away from the meaning.
The Book of Revelations has quite a lot to say about this recent phenomenon.

What I see on this forum is a Christian or two, endlessly poked at in an attempt to coax them to admit the foolishness of their beliefs and turn them into "free-thinking" clones of the atheists, who seem to need frequent affirmation that their non-belief is the right choice.
I would say being a Christian is a good start on the road to fluency.
Because it provides an infallible ally.
The value of that can not be underestimated.

I like the idea of a misnamed God being called Good.

The Hebrew Good is called Yahweh.
Yahweh = I Am.
Good created all of us in his image, so the story goes.
So we too = I Am.
People who deny the existence of Good isolate themselves from a principle that includes them in the secret of life. They can end up feeling alone and outside of things.

But "I Am" means that there IS no outside.
I Am, and It is Me. I Am It. And It is Good.
That is why - even if there were no such thing as Good - it would benefit all of us to choose to believe that there was.
Certainly it could do no harm.

We may have issues with religion: I certainly do.
But religions are man-made things.
Good existed before mankind, and will always exist.

So what is this about?
It might be true to say that stuttering is a major problem for us.
Or we would mostly not be concerned with it.
It makes sense to align ourselves with Good.
Face it: "free-thinking" along with all the other crude tools of mankind hasn't worked too well so far, has it?

I can only suggest a re-think of the proudly-held view that atheism is somehow enlightened.

And finally: may I ask you to please read the above as a whole, rather than react emotionally over individual words?

this was actually a good post., very encouraging especially in the first half. but the second half scares the shit out of me Asif:eek:

its swerves dangerously off the road to self acceptance and straight into the opposite lane and on a head on collision path with a slipping and sliding, jack knifing truck of religion. I'm thinking WTF just happened???:confused:

Besides if u are a true proponent of Em's right to speak her mind about religion without being "coaxed" to the "dark side" then this statement 'I can only suggest a re-think of the proudly-held view that atheism is somehow enlightened..." rightly scares the shit out of me.

sorry, perhaps i missed something but u sound just like the very people who's actions u condemn. they say Re-think your beliefs...u r saying the same thing! u know another guy that thinks the same way? My way is the best?...Osama.
BTW this is not an attack. just a coment...and a query.
Nate

[Paranoid]

WOOOOAAAHHH, if anyonne is even taking a fraction of this mumbo jumbo in then you have some issues....

[sst]

WOOOOAAAHHH, if anyonne is even taking a fraction of this mumbo jumbo in then you have some issues....

Thank you. :) My sentiments exactly.