Fluency 4: Writing for fluency.

[Asif]

People sometimes take issue with the way I write.

They see it is different from the way they expect it should be.

There are short sentences, with lots of space between.

This makes it easy to read, and lets each idea stand apart.

But it makes some people uncomfortable and they read all sorts of things into it which are actually not there. They often have never seen anything quite like it.

But try reading the words as if you were speaking them.

Each sentence is short, followed by a pause.

Now contrast how I write, with other posts on this forum.
Often there are no spaces, the punctuation is sp or non-existent.
Little care is taken over the content. Things are not checked.

Delivering your message is what this forum is all about: Every time you speak, you have a message to deliver. It may be a good thing to consider how best to deliver that message, rather than just fire it from a cannon.

And most of all: the more care you take - over anything - the more it shows that you care.

[Adrian]

It is not really your place to criticize how people on this forum write. We all come from different educational backgrounds. This is a world wide forum and for many of us English is not our first language. Some will do a better job then others at getting their point across, but so what?

The last thing I want to see is a member hesitant to post for fear that they will feel the wrath of the grammar police.

[Asif]

It is not really your place to criticize how people on this forum write.

The last thing I want to see is a member hesitant to post for fear that they will feel the wrath of the grammar police.

It is really not your place to tear down everything a member says, either.
What exactly do you see as "my place"?
What you want to see might not be what you do see.
But you and I are equals here.
First I am called a guru, then a messiah, now I am the police.
Do I excite you in some perverse way?
Get a grip.

[emily445455]

I actually like the way you type, Asif, I understand things better that way than in one big paragraph. Especially on the computer, where, for me, things are harder to read and comprehend.

I usually just type and hit submit, lol, I spend enough time proof-reading and using spell check for school....as long as people can understand what im saying, im fine :p

[Asif]

...as long as people can understand what im saying, im fine :p

Yes.
But can you be sure they do understand?
I have learned not to assume that any more.
A little more care taken beforehand usually saves a lot of time later.
Unfortunately, that seems often to work the other way here :)

My wife made a very interesting observation today...
She said that while my signature was very profound, when it was repeated too often, it might become annoying.
So I have changed it.
How do you like my new one?

[sst]

I think the only one here with a problem with grammar and spelling, is you, Hans. I mean Asif.

Do you have a problem with the way I type? Silly me, I thought all those years in school have taught me the proper way to write. I guess your style of broken sentences, ramblings, and demented haiku-formats are the proper way which everyone here should should adapt. ;)

[emily445455]

If people don't understand then they either ask me to explain, ignore my post, or attack me for the misunderstanding. None of those scenerios bother me much.

I've noticed usually people understand my posts thought.

I'm not sure what you're sig was before.

[Asif]

If people don't understand then they either ask me to explain, ignore my post, or attack me for the misunderstanding.

The problem is, the listener or reader often does not know they have misunderstood.
Therefore they can not let you know.
You assume they understood, they assume they have.
But if you look back at the last million responses to my posts, you may notice that they often completely miss my meaning.
Emotions prevented understanding.

[emily445455]

Unless I'm witnessing....that's ok by me.

[chris2112]

What does this have to do with fluency? I thought you were gonna share your experience of how you became fluent or something.

[Asif]

What does this have to do with fluency? I thought you were gonna share your experience of how you became fluent or something.

How you organize and present your message when you write is intimately connected with how you do it when you speak.

[eva]

It is not really your place to criticize how people on this forum write. We all come from different educational backgrounds. This is a world wide forum and for many of us English is not our first language. Some will do a better job then others at getting their point across, but so what?

The last thing I want to see is a member hesitant to post for fear that they will feel the wrath of the grammar police.

Thank you for those words. English is not my first language and I have no idea how poor my grammar is. Everytime i post, i hesitate a bit, but try and remember that correct spelling is not the most important thing.

Asif, your style of expressing your thoughts by creating these irrelevant topics that have nothing to do with stuttering is quite annoying. This forum is not just about you. Maybe you are getting attacked because you give an impression that you put yourself above the rest of us and play some weird mysterious game throughout the whole forum where you reveal little by little your secrets of how to become fluent.

Would you be so kind, Asif, and make a summary of what seems to be your theory of fluency? I thought it was just going to be fluency1, fluency2 and fluency3 and the end. But this is number 4 and I don't even want to know how many more will follow.

[Asif]

Would you be so kind, Asif, and make a summary of what seems to be your theory of fluency? I thought it was just going to be fluency1, fluency2 and fluency3 and the end. But this is number 4 and I don't even want to know how many more will follow.

I have no "theory of fluency".
Fluency - for one who has never had it - can not suddenly be granted or given.
It is a journey, involving work, practice and focus.
But most of all it involves changing certain things about ourselves.
More will follow as and when it does. Or not.
I do actually have a life besides this forum.

At present, my whole roof is about to collapse under five feet of snow.
My chimney is slowly being ripped off by the glacier of ice beneath that snow.
My wife and I may either be crushed or burned up.
My water pipes are about to freeze, my power is about to be cut off again...

And yet I still try to respond to your questions.

I am aware this forum is not about me.
Nor is it about you.
Or any of the others.
It is about stuttering and how to deal with it.

[JDRow]

Eva, I'm surprised to hear that English isn't your first language. Your posts are always very clear and well-written. I hope you don't hesitate to post, because I enjoy reading what you have to say.

[sst]

Hans, I'm getting the feeling you know very little about being fluent. Didn't you say earlier you no longer stutter? Why are you backtracking and saying you still stutter? I think you need to be honest. You don't know more about being fluent than the rest of us. ;)

[sst]

Eva, I'm surprised to hear that English isn't your first language. Your posts are always very clear and well-written. I hope you don't hesitate to post, because I enjoy reading what you have to say.

Yeah, I agree. Eva probably has better writing skills than I do. I often meet people who's primary language isn't English, but have better grammar skills than many people who's primary language is English.

[Adrian]

Yeah, I agree. Eva probably has better writing skills than I do. I often meet people who's primary language isn't English, but have better grammar skills than many people who's primary language is English.

There probably better then mine too. Eva's post are some of the most grammatically sound here. It's odd but non native english speakers often understand english grammer better then native speakers. Many native speakers don't take the time to really learn the rules of grammer because they can get by on what they believe sounds right.

[Adrian]

There probably better then mine too. Eva's post are some of the most grammatically sound here. It's odd but non native english speakers often understand english grammer better then native speakers. Many native speakers don't take the time to really learn the rules of grammer because they can get by on what they believe sounds right.

I meant they're not there. Looks like I proved my own point. :-)

[Asif]

...they can get by on what they believe sounds right.

My command of the English language is as good as anybody's, but you know what?
I use a dictionary nearly every day, because I often assume I know what a word means, but all too often discover I really don't.
I make it my business to know what I am saying and to say it accurately.
Communication depends on a whole lot more than just being fluent.

[Silent]

It's odd but non native english speakers often understand english grammer better then native speakers.
I believe most grammars are more sophisticated. If you can speak Finnish, learning English must be a piece of cake.

English is not even a real language anyway ;)

[Asif]

English is not even a real language anyway ;)

And what is your definition of a "real" language?

[Asif]

It is not really your place

After due consideration of what appears to be your unchanging, never-ending attacks upon anything and everything I write, this is the only response you will ever get from me.
You are evidently a masochist and I will not give you pleasure ever again.
Asif.

[sst]

And what is your definition of a "real" language?

Careful Adrian, remember Asif is a member of the BNP. English is the language of the "pure" race. ;) Nothing will stand in their way. They have to protect Ze Homeland!

After due consideration of what appears to be your unchanging, never-ending attacks upon anything and everything I write, this is the only response you will ever get from me.
You are evidently a masochist and I will not give you pleasure ever again.
Asif.

You gave the same response to me, too. :( Are we only good enough for an automated reply? I'm so despondent right now.

[nate]

People sometimes take issue with the way I write.

They see it is different from the way they expect it should be.

There are short sentences, with lots of space between.

This makes it easy to read, and lets each idea stand apart.

But it makes some people uncomfortable and they read all sorts of things into it which are actually not there. They often have never seen anything quite like it.

But try reading the words as if you were speaking them.

Each sentence is short, followed by a pause.

Now contrast how I write, with other posts on this forum.
Often there are no spaces, the punctuation is sp or non-existent.
Little care is taken over the content. Things are not checked.

Delivering your message is what this forum is all about: Every time you speak, you have a message to deliver. It may be a good thing to consider how best to deliver that message, rather than just fire it from a cannon.

And most of all: the more care you take - over anything - the more it shows that you care.

oh boy...Asif u really need to be taken with a grain of salt.:rolleyes:
but u r right. i for one am terrible at typing and spelling and punctuation and all the rest of that kak.
but writing is a great idea for getting your feelings out. it's a good way to practice formulating your thoughts and finding a way to put them out on paper, or even just in words. many a convo's been started from ideas i worded while typing on this forum.

But Adrians right too...u musnt criticise people's writing style because we all come from different walks of life and that affects our prowess in the english language. But u type well...and u write extremely well.
Nate