Reinventing the wheel

[JDRow]

I've noticed that a good number of posters here feel like they can or should come up with their own theories of the cause(s) of and potential cure(s) for stuttering, without any reliance on the research that's been done on the topic.

I just find this interesting, because I doubt it's true of other conditions and disorders. I doubt that people on cancer support boards spend a lot of time trying to figure out the cause of cancer, or finding a cure for it on their own. I would even doubt that most people with Tourette's think that they can figure out the cause of Tourette's and cure it all on their own (although I could be wrong there).

Why do stutterers so commonly feel like they can figure out the cause and cure of stuttering all on their own? Is it a useful thing to do?

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm bashing other people's theories, because I'm not trying to. I'm just interested in why stutterers seem to treat stuttering so much differently than other people with disabilities or disorders treat their conditions. I can't think of another condition where individuals think they can find the cause and cure all on their own. Maybe some psychological disorders, but even then most people with depression will probably not think they can come up with a theory of the cause and cure of depression on their own.

[emily445455]

I think maybe people do this because no one knows exactly what causes stuttering....so there is room for everyone's individual ideas on where it comes from.

[Jamus]

I think maybe people do this because no one knows exactly what causes stuttering....so there is room for everyone's individual ideas on where it comes from.

I agree. Not all we know about stuttering is fact and many of these quick fixes out there are based on the percentage of people who responded to its initial tests. Not everyone responds to the many types of therapies, devices, etc in the same way... leaving many unanswered questions and a lot of room to contemplate and realize what works for us through our own ways of looking at stuttering.

Not just that but not everyone can afford the thousands of dollars for those programs out there, so we are forced to look elsewhere for our own therapies and things that work for us. I've always questioned all those so called miracle cures b/c they are a temporary solution that will only lose its momentum and send you back into the vortex again... and in the end you will not have learned anything about yourself in regards to making real progress with your stutter.

[Adrian]

I think people will believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence. The evidence cleary shows a neurologic problem yet people refuse to believe it. I guess they believe that if it is a simple psychological problem then they just need to get there head screwed on straight and, poof, they will become fluent. Unfortunately it is not that easy.

[Stevelaz]

I think that there is a good deal of useful info on these threads about stuttering, especially with regards to things that others have tried etc, however each of us has our own 'individual' stutter that is unique to us and its not like a one cure fits all will work.

For what it's worth, my thoughts are that it is neurological issue, it is fairly much accepted that we have excess dopamine in the striatum and this is what throws the speech timing out........as we experience situations, this creates/causes more dopamine and we are caught in a vicious circle that becomes habitual and self fullfiling.

We do not have a problem with our speech mechanism as we can speak fluently sometimes, so logically we can rule this out....

I took zyprexa/olanzapine for a while and my blocks reduced by 80% and my secondaries went away straight away......piled on weight and was tired all the time, not so great, so I stopped using the drug, so this proves that it is a brain chemical issue, at least for me anyway.

I can 'manage' my stutter with costal breathing and other techniques taught on the McGuire programme, but it is managing the issue, not curing it.

I am wary of people trying all sorts of potions and pills......taking amino acids (5-htp etc), not great to mess around with brain chemistry unless you know your stuff or feel the benefits outway the risk, which they probably wont.

We need to make some good habitual changes to reduce our stutters while the boffins work on a drug that will help us......pagoclone shows promise for some, but its early days, and we can improve our speech considerably without drugs.

Just my 2 cents

[Silent]

One benefit of drugs is often overlooked. If you take a drug and it helps your speech, then even if it stops working after some time or you quit it for some other reason, it has given you a glimpse into what non-stuttered speech feels like, and perhaps a hint as to what might cause or aggravate your stuttering.

[Adrian]

I am bumping up this old thread started by JDRow. It seems very relevant to some of the discusssions lately.

Why do so many people ignore the current wisdom and research and dig their heels in with their hunch of the moment of what causes stuttering? It is fine to be skeptical, but this sometimes goes to extremes.

BTW, JDRow, are you still with us?

[Zilaem]

Well it could be that is because every stutter out there is unique: different triggers, conditions, symptoms so it's hard to come up with an answer that fits for every case.

Sometimse we spend hours without stuttering without knowing why but then the dopamine kicks in and we sart stuttering all over again.

[jamesm]

Yea, I feel like a hundred times a year I come up with a "Cure" for my stutter. Only to see that it maybe lasts for a few days, more or less, and then right back to my stuttering ways.

[howeee]

For sure when people point out they can talk without stuttering when alone as proof its only in ones head is interesting. This one always gets me. I dont know how from that one concludes its nothing physical. inspite of the research that says otherwise.

[Charlieb]

Is there a proverbial "wheel" for speech? by that I mean does anyone know anyone who has perfect speech?? I don't think so, So many people take it for granted that they can speak without stammering or stuttering over their words that they find it difficult to accept someone who does not.

For me that is why we keep looking for a Cause\effect\solution\cure call it what you will. Personally I believe it is a physical\brain disorder which in itself isn't as bad as we sometimes may think, it is when we start to heap all the negative emotions, psychological issues on top of it that we can feel overcome.

For me, its not about reinventing the wheel, its like I fell off the bike when I was very young, (probably never could ride it properly to start with) and just heaped fear, anxiety, tension and loads more onto myself.

For me, Its now about learning to strip away all these feeling and replace them with more confident ones, Maybe find out why I couldn't ride the bike in the first place and use techniques to deal with the physical attributes of my stammer..

Charlie.

[Luffy]

Think many stutterers are trying find the cause in hope a quick cure. Sadly it doesnt work that way.

[howeee]

I could care less why I began to stutter,,interests me not one iota. If someone comes up with a drug to help me,,Ill take it,,I am past devices and therapy, I will never try either again. 16 years of abstaining from therapy has improved my speech tremendously, I wish I had all the time and money back I wasted on therapies that only made my speech and my self esteem poor.

[ptw]

No one knows a thing about stuttering. There's so much false information out there too. Starting over would be a good idea.

[fearfactory]

dr. Maguirre knows stuttering well...

[agantx]

I've noticed that a good number of posters here feel like they can or should come up with their own theories of the cause(s) of and potential cure(s) for stuttering, without any reliance on the research that's been done on the topic.

That's true. I don't know why many people do that and believe without any basis. Instead they should do research and base their conclusions on the evidence and not on their opinion.

I just find this interesting, because I doubt it's true of other conditions and disorders. I doubt that people on cancer support boards spend a lot of time trying to figure out the cause of cancer, or finding a cure for it on their own. I would even doubt that most people with Tourette's think that they can figure out the cause of Tourette's and cure it all on their own (although I could be wrong there).

That's because we/science knows a lot about other disorders/diseases. That's why people don't make up or imagine their own conclusions. But with stuttering disorder it's completely different. It's still a mystery to us and scientists know very little about it. With enough time, this will change...

Why do stutterers so commonly feel like they can figure out the cause and cure of stuttering all on their own? Is it a useful thing to do?

It's not a useful thing to do since our conclusions are wrong most of the time. It's up to scientists/professionals to make the proper valid conclusions.

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm bashing other people's theories, because I'm not trying to. I'm just interested in why stutterers seem to treat stuttering so much differently than other people with disabilities or disorders treat their conditions. I can't think of another condition where individuals think they can find the cause and cure all on their own. Maybe some psychological disorders, but even then most people with depression will probably not think they can come up with a theory of the cause and cure of depression on their own.

It's basically because many people (including many people who stutter) still believe that stuttering disorder is completely psychological or is caused by negative feelings like stress, low self esteem and nervousness. The reality is that negative feelings only make stuttering worse but do not cause it. Instead stuttering disorder is a neurological brain disorder. It means that something is wrong with the wiring connections in our brains. This is the true cause of stuttering disorder. Since many people don't know about it, they believe they can come up with good theories and cures when in reality they are most likely wrong. I hope this will help! ;)

[Charlieb]

That's true. I don't know why many people do that and believe without any basis. Instead they should do research and base their conclusions on the evidence and not on their opinion.

The reality is that negative feelings only make stuttering worse but do not cause it. Instead stuttering disorder is a neurological brain disorder. It means that something is wrong with the wiring connections in our brains. This is the true cause of stuttering disorder. Since many people don't know about it, they believe they can come up with good theories and cures when in reality they are most likely wrong. I hope this will help! ;)

Is this your theory agantx? You seem to be contradicting yourself in what you are saying, Don't get me wrong I think that there is definitely sound basis in what you are saying, but it you take this to its obvious conclusion it means that we (I) can do nothing about my stammer. I wouldn't accept that in a month of Sundays.

Charlie

[Be YOURSELF]

The effects of stuttering are too deep for any scientist to observe and make a conclusion. Many of you might know about the iceberg theory for stuttering, 20%(what people see) on the surface and 80%(how we feel) beneath the surface. it us up to us stutterers to discuss, analyze and come to an agree conclusion. science can help us with the 20% it observes but that is not concrete enough to invent the wheel. I like reading people's theories, it helps us understand the whole issue better. I haven't seen any1 here forcing their ideas onto people, its not even possible as most members are quick to question ideas, thats the way it suppose to be...

[Adrian]

It is fine to discuss the psychological effect of stuttering and how it snowballs to worsen this disorder. No one is disputing that is an important part of stuttering. But the evidence is pretty clear that stuttering is at its root a neurological disorder. Agantx is right that the exact cause of stuttering is still a mystery, but the brain scan and genetic studies prove that it is NOT a psychological problem. Yet it seems we get more than our share of know it all types on this group who have everything figured out based on nothing more than there own intuition.

[Be YOURSELF]

Adrian;40154...But the evidence is pretty clear that stuttering is at its root a neurological disorder...

Yes its pretty clear to you, but not to all the stutterers who have just started researching this subject. Are there any analysis on how the neuron disorder affects the speech process?

Anyhow I think the neuron disorder may have started it, but for some the effects are 90% of the problem, which is the psychological effect. Which begs the question, will you automatically not be a stutterer if the root cause is resolved? It will take some yrs to reverse.

The cause is truly a mystery, however it doesn't mean we should stop seeking to understand the cause. The stutter population is capable of finding out more information than the few researchers interested in stuttering.

[Adrian]

Are there any analysis on how the neuron disorder affects the speech process?

Anyhow I think the neuron disorder may have started it, but for some the effects are 90% of the problem, which is the psychological effect. Which begs the question, will you automatically not be a stutterer if the root cause is resolved? It will take some yrs to reverse.

The cause is truly a mystery, however it doesn't mean we should stop seeking to understand the cause. The stutter population is capable of finding out more information than the few researchers interested in stuttering.

Not really sure what you mean by a neuron disorder, but yes there is strong evidence that dopamine levels effect speech and that the dopamine levels of stutterers are out of whack in the speech areas of our brains.

Psychology may be a driving force behind stuttering, but I believe if we eliminate the root neurological cause of stuttering then we will all be fluent. Fluent speakers can be a complete psychological mess and still speak fluently because they don't have the nuerological glitch that causes stuttering.

Yes, we should analyze our speech and figure out ways to better manage it, but in the end it will be the scientists who find the root cause and perhaps a cure or effective medical treatment.

[Thecoherentman]

We have been trying to implement a sort of limited artificial consciousness and it appears to me that the model we are using is compatible to how stuttering is manifested with all of its paradoxical effects. Without disclosing our technical secrets I explain a few things.

Think about units of subconsciousness as interfaces between sensory inputs and the main consciousness unit. Structurally there is no difference between main unit and the sub-units except that main unit is stronger and can move and alter the sub-units. The sub-units can only show resistance to the main unit and this way communicate with the main unit. For example if you look at yellow color and try to see it as red you find it very hard and you find it easy to see yellow as yellow. For some people to see day as night is possible because in other ways it suits their needs. I have seen many smart people make mistakes most of the time at the expense of others and for their own benefit and they do it honestly as they see it.

In stuttering the sub units get stronger and dominate the main unit. This could be because of extra Dopamine used by sub units or shortage of Dopamine for the use of the main unit. It is not wise to tamper with and reduce Dopamine level in the brain as it will be at the expense of life expectancy and quality of life. The most effective way to strengthen the main unit is by self reflection. You must be aware of your body, your breathing , your feeling, your thinking. When you think you also must think about the way you are thinking. When you feel, try to feel how you are feeling. When you are driving a car pay attention to everything and pay attention to the way you feel the control of the car. When you are speaking pay attention to everything inside you and enjoy the way you feel in control of your speech.
In addition you must pay attention to your inhibitions and impulses that wants to block your speech. and you must not fight with them. If you fight with them they get stronger. A house is made of walls to block you from going the wrong ways. Breaking trough thin walls must not be considered a success. Find the doors and staircases and move easily. In stuttering we do not see and use the doors and we keep breaking windows and walls. Pay big attention, do not hurry and find where the doors must be by observation.

[Thomkatt]

Wow thecoherentman I understood some of what you wrote. There was actually some reason and logic going on.

[jamesm]

Thecoherentman: Do you stutter?

[Be YOURSELF]

.....Find the doors and staircases and move easily. In stuttering we do not see and use the doors and we keep breaking windows and walls. Pay big attention, do not hurry and find where the doors must be by observation.

In-order to observe, we have to be experimenting and that is where the majority of stutters stop short. Fear of speaking! is our highest and biggest Obstacle. How would you deal with fear?

[Thecoherentman]

Thecoherentman: Do you stutter?

Yes I do. But stuttering is not a handicap for me any more. The reason I still stutter is because I do not limit myself to the domain of non-stuttering world. After you are a stutterer for many years then you would not like to be forbidden not to travel and loiter in your stuttering space from time to time.

My stuttering perhaps started before I was one year old. I was insulted by an adult relative and after I start crying (I was taking the insult serious as I did not know what was a mild or what was a serious insult look like and I cried as an instict to solicit support as infants do.) And after I start crying, the adult authority instructed me to be silent. The insult required crying and the inhibition required not crying. My reaction was to stop breathing. This repeated several times and as I remember it felt like the blocks I had later in my stuttering speech.