I would like to hear your thoughts about this!

[grantM]

http://www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=27&t=30422

[Silent]

He should never have gotten the job.

[grantM]

He should never have gotten the job.

Why? I work as a lecturer which is all about communication and student success yet I stutter severely.

[Silent]

Why? I work as a lecturer which is all about communication and student success yet I stutter severely.
"Severely" is a relative term.

Just because you classify your stutter as severe doesn't mean his is not worse. It doesn't even mean his is no more than, say, 100 times as bad as yours.

Besides, I think a lecturer can get away with blocks more easily than a police officer. Students are usually more understanding than the random folks the police have to deal with on a regular basis. They can wait. They know you stutter, excepting the first time you see them.
What's a police officer worth who takes 10 minutes to yell "freeze, police" at the runaway suspect, and is still not understood by anyone?
What's a police officer worth who gets an ambulance called on him by the bystanders that think he's having a seizure?

[emily445455]

If he's happy where he is in the field, then great! If not, he should look for a different job. Being a cop with a severe stutter is not practical.

[happy7117]

If he's happy where he is in the field, then great! If not, he should look for a different job. Being a cop with a severe stutter is not practical.

If you can't talk right which for stutterers is the truth, don't expect to get hired for a verbaly demanding job like a cop.

It goes back to that lie about "stuttering should not hold you back from getting a job".

That's a big lie and a bunch of bull. Lying will not make stutterers feel better. Stuttering does hold one back from getting the job one wants.

[happy7117]

Why? I work as a lecturer which is all about communication and student success yet I stutter severely.

That's great for you, but how can that be??

That sounds like irony. A severe nasty stutterer that succeeds at lecturing.

If one can't be understood which is the case with horrible stutterings, how can one expect to gar far in lecturing.

Unless one uses A FLUENCY DEVICE to help them speak better, will a severe stutterer ever succeed.

A severe stutterer using a device to help ease up their stuttering is the only way a lecturer will be able to succeed.

[emily445455]

Why? I work as a lecturer which is all about communication and student success yet I stutter severely.

IMO, being a lecturer is different than being a cop.

Saying "Drop the weapon and lay on the ground." Is a lot more critical to say fluently than saying "Hello and thank you for coming."

[grantM]

If one can't be understood which is the case with horrible stutterings, how can one expect to gar far in lecturing.

I sometimes for a 2 hour lecturing block stutter and block on every word or at worst including individual syllables of certain words yet I have large student success rates, have won awards and have never had a complaint. I struggle to maintain any form of technique (McGuire) in front of the class and this is something I have to work on. I do not use any devices either. I disclose on the first lecture of the semester and that is it. I also deal with a large number of international students who have poor English skills yet they manage with me. I also present at conferences in the same manner (minus disclosure normally) and liaise with company heads to nurture student teams into industry projects. I have nearly passed out a few times in class due to lack of oxygen during a hard and long block. On one peer review I had the academic reviewer made note that my stutter aided my lecturing because: the tone and flow were not monotonous, my hard blocks forced student attention and the class seemed to have respect. On the day of that review my stutter was very severe and I honestly thought I was heading home jobless. Personally I would rather not stutter but at least I am happy that it seems to be having a positive effect. A stuttering friend of mine from a different uni has a different problem, he is completely fluent in front of the class but not away from it!

As for the poor officer if he has been allowed into the force and all were aware of his problem then he should be allowed full status if he can perform up to their standards stuttering or not. If he can handle the scenarios thrown at him then let him in. I am 100% sure he is not the first stutterer the English police force having met at least one other myself.

It goes back to that lie about "stuttering should not hold you back from getting a job".
I highly debate this also. Some stutterers I have met have great careers. It is not a lie, it is a generalisation. We can achieve and go into basically any careers we want if we have the mindset to succeed, the passion, drive and interest. I was at a McGuire course last year in Melbourne and was amazed because I was in a room f new graduates all of which were highly successful in their fields. From memory there was at least an airline pilot, 2 company heads with international branches, a student doctor, a personal manager, welder etc etc.

[grantM]

IMO, being a lecturer is different than being a cop.

Saying "Drop the weapon and lay on the ground." Is a lot more critical to say fluently than saying "Hello and thank you for coming."
Of course it is but both are critical on strong communication skills. If he can perform up to the standards required even with the stutter then let him in. We have to know more about this case. We have to look at his body language during a training scenario and how he holds himself. This would assist his stutterer. We also need to know if his stuttered speech will cause empathy with the general criminal. Will the "bad guy" relate more to the stuttering cop? Does the officer have to say every line exactly by the book? Can the force and the student adapt in any way to for his speech beyond a desk job?

I would like to know what Alan Badmington thinks. He is an ex UK cop who stutterers http://www.mnsu.edu/comdis/isad6/papers/badmington6.html

[emily445455]

If he can perform the skills, I see no problem. But if his fellow co-workers and those in authority over him feel that he cannot...then he probably shouldn't be in the field. Just my opinion.

[happy7117]

Hmmmm...this is actualy a great thread!

Being a cop, dysfluency could probably cost a suspect to get away from you.

If you can't shout or say "drop the weapon, or stop" in a clear and effective way than a suspect could get away from you and even fire more rounds off if he had a gun.

It's sort of scary to think that in any critical job like a fire-man, paramedic, and even a cop fluency and dysflueny can be the difference between saving someone and losing someone.

It's even more frightening to think if you were a paramedic dispatcher with horrible nasty stuttering needing to save someone from choking, or an asthma attack.

Would anyone be able to live with themselves if their stuttering prevented them from giving urgent life saving technique's to save a life??

But a lecturer on the other hand I am guessing needs to sound reasonably or very fluent to give a clear and meaningfull presentation.

[happy7117]

I sometimes for a 2 hour lecturing block stutter and block on every word or at worst including individual syllables of certain words yet I have large student success rates, have won awards and have never had a complaint. I struggle to maintain any form of technique (McGuire) in front of the class and this is something I have to work on. I do not use any devices either. I disclose on the first lecture of the semester and that is it. I also deal with a large number of international students who have poor English skills yet they manage with me. I also present at conferences in the same manner (minus disclosure normally) and liaise with company heads to nurture student teams into industry projects. I have nearly passed out a few times in class due to lack of oxygen during a hard and long block. On one peer review I had the academic reviewer made note that my stutter aided my lecturing because: the tone and flow were not monotonous, my hard blocks forced student attention and the class seemed to have respect. On the day of that review my stutter was very severe and I honestly thought I was heading home jobless. Personally I would rather not stutter but at least I am happy that it seems to be having a positive effect. A stuttering friend of mine from a different uni has a different problem, he is completely fluent in front of the class but not away from it!

As for the poor officer if he has been allowed into the force and all were aware of his problem then he should be allowed full status if he can perform up to their standards stuttering or not. If he can handle the scenarios thrown at him then let him in. I am 100% sure he is not the first stutterer the English police force having met at least one other myself.


I highly debate this also. Some stutterers I have met have great careers. It is not a lie, it is a generalisation. We can achieve and go into basically any careers we want if we have the mindset to succeed, the passion, drive and interest. I was at a McGuire course last year in Melbourne and was amazed because I was in a room f new graduates all of which were highly successful in their fields. From memory there was at least an airline pilot, 2 company heads with international branches, a student doctor, a personal manager, welder etc etc.

From what you said in your post about high success rates,awards and accolaids from speaking..I find it hard to believe it was all accomplished in spite of nasty stuttering..in fact I'm baffeled.

Are you sure you are not a recovering PWS severely from maybe this McGuire program that enabled you to acheive more fluency??

[grantM]

From what you said in your post about high success rates,awards and accolaids from speaking..I find it hard to believe it was all accomplished in spite of nasty stuttering..in fact I'm baffeled.

Are you sure you are not a recovering PWS severely from maybe this McGuire program that enabled you to acheive more fluency??

No Happy I have lectured and taught for 4 years before I did my first McGuire course. It is all drive and I think also probably personality. I struggle with technique at work totally I think due to having to think on my feet so much and I forget to use it. In front of the class I do not have more fluency post course. McGuire does not focus on fluency anyway it is more eloquence focused. As I always say it is not about the method it is about the message. Of course I have my good and bad days and at times I get deterred, but I always continue on forward. I cop in from fellow work mates about my speech, not to my face though, but there is often whispers and murmurings. I am nothing special though and I see other stutterers at support groups, course and conferences who do just as well. We are all special and have our own unique tales and accomplishments to tell.

I was though rejected from entering army officer school as a youngster due to my stuttering though. I was too immature at that time to contemplate contesting it. They thought I could not perform under pressure and would not mix well with the men.

[happy7117]

No Happy I have lectured and taught for 4 years before I did my first McGuire course. It is all drive and I think also probably personality. I struggle with technique at work totally I think due to having to think on my feet so much and I forget to use it. In front of the class I do not have more fluency post course. McGuire does not focus on fluency anyway it is more eloquence focused. As I always say it is not about the method it is about the message. Of course I have my good and bad days and at times I get deterred, but I always continue on forward. I cop in from fellow work mates about my speech, not to my face though, but there is often whispers and murmurings. I am nothing special though and I see other stutterers at support groups, course and conferences who do just as well. We are all special and have our own unique tales and accomplishments to tell.

I was though rejected from entering army officer school as a youngster due to my stuttering though. I was too immature at that time to contemplate contesting it. They thought I could not perform under pressure and would not mix well with the men.

Well then, it sounds like your a brave gent, and courageous. How anyone can do what you do with severe stuttering--I would be so frusterated and flustered.

Stay brave !

[grantM]

Thanks Happy but again it is not all roses for me. I get down and angry at times the same as everyone here. I am not brave at all. I have simply chosen my own path and followed it. I ask for no allowances or special treatment.

[Derek181]

id like to see a video of grant doing one of his lectures. your perception of severe is probably a lot different from others. you probably stutter once every few words and it takes u maybe a few seconds on each word. i just cant beleive a SEVERE stutter is able to give lectures. ive met severe stutterers and i know for a fact that they would never be able to lecture. they would probably say a quarter of what they wanted to say cuz it would take them so long. also when u get into a huge block .... some people would probably get confused and there would have to be a lot of "pardon me's" .

[JDRow]

However, if the individual hid or masked his impediment during the hiring process (in other words, is a liar by omission of information) then it is on the employee and should by fired for making false official statements on a job application.

I think that's a gray area, though. I'm not sure people are legally required to disclose disabilities to their employers. I don't think somebody is a liar if they don't tell their employer that they have depression, or are diabetic, or are bipolar, or whatever they might be. I don't think it's grounds for firing somebody if they can manage an interview without stuttering and don't mention that they do stutter.

In this case, if the guy does a good job with the desk duties, I don't see why he shouldn't have been hired. Maybe he won't ever get promoted, but if he can do the job he's doing, I don't see what the problem with it is. Maybe a reasonable accommodation, in this case, is to let him stay on doing office work. I don't know. But I don't think he should have just not been hired. I'm sure there are police officers who stutter, and while it's not a job I would choose or that I think I could do, I wouldn't want to see other people stopped before they even get a chance to try.

[grantM]

Well Derek mild to severe is really based on your own perceptions. The highest I have been rated is stuttering at between 50-55% syllables per minute that was when I first looked at smooth speech. I have large facial contortions and other associate bodily movements. Sometime I manage 30 words plus a minute and at other times less than 10. To me that is quite severe.I also have no confidence in a teaching scenario about how my speech will go for that day. There is no clear pattern. Once classes return in March I will tape a small section of my lectures if you wish. Believe you me each 2 hour block for me is a real struggle and sometimes an eternity. Both I and the class winch at times. I compensate for my speech I guess by having thorough notes with extra materials in the notes panels of my PowerPoint slides and also by having an open door policy to come and chat to me if you could not understand a point in class. People do get confused at times and I often use visual examples to help. Some of my larger blocks go for between 10 - 30 seconds at the end of which I am gasping for air. The thing is I guess is that I have a lot of confidence, front and drive. I have never had a non-sociable job. I initially worked in sales, then I went to uni at the same time working with effects in the film industry and creating my own shorts. I then went straight into teaching at a TAFE level (tech) and to then to uni. I have no teaching qualifications at all, lecturers do not need them. My speech has never been a public issue at work. Of course when people first meet me they are sometimes very shocked and embarrassed but I am over that factor. It has happened so many time now I do not care. I cannot use my speech as an excuse not to strive further. The road forward is hard but far from impossible. All I have is a stutter as a legally defined disability. There are so many people far worse off than me. I guess I have taken ownership of my stutter. It is still a major pain in the though.

[annalisa7]

Someone that comes to mind is physicist Steven Hawking who uses a computerized communication device to speak and sometimes it's hard to understand him. His lectures SALE OUT. Sometimes the gravity [pardon the pun] of what is being said and the likability of the speaker outweigh the speech obstacles. I couldn't imagine not listening and hanging on to his every word.

I teach dance classes. Mind you, my speech is strangely better when I'm speaking publically. [shrug] I can drive home 5 minutes later and can't get a word out when speaking to my husband? Stuttering is such a crazy thing.

But my speech isn't perfect by any means when I teach, but no ones seems to mind and my classes are very popular and more well attended by regulars than other classes at the same gym.

Remember there is more to communication and likability then speech alone!

I do agree that prompt speech is paramount in some jobs, and it's up to the stutterer to honestly self-evaluate.

[Count]

http://www.ukpoliceonline.co.uk/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=27&t=30422

That's insane! That's the best example how bad stutterers in our retarded society are treated. It was completely the right decision to employ this guy since he wanted to be a police officer. They have to find an arrangement with him due to his speech impediment.

[nate]

IMO, being a lecturer is different than being a cop.

Saying "Drop the weapon and lay on the ground." Is a lot more critical to say fluently than saying "Hello and thank you for coming."

how about "Officer down I repeat 'Officer down'. A hundred and eighth and Madison. I need an ambulance ASAP!"

all the while adrenaline is rushing! Good luck vato!

Nate

[happy7117]

"How about. Offcer down, and needs back-up now"

If a cop can't say that fluently while being wounded in a shoot-out, your dead.

Or reading meranda rights.

All these sitautions require not only very fluent speech, but it also extremely high pressuring, lot's of adrenaline, and the wrong thing said could spell death.

Another worse scenario where fluency has to be 100% for a cop is negotiating with a gunman to let hostages go.

Hostage negotiaters.

They would require verbal agility not to mention strong polished flueny- and I do mean polished fluency, and also knowing what to say, how to say it, and when to say it. The wrong thing said at the wrong time could mean a hostages life.

This sounds harsh, but a stutterer no matter if it's mild, moderate , or severe will not make it as a cop.

Don't bash me for that comment, but being a cop is a very dangerous job.

My brother wants to be either a sheriff, a doctor, a PE teacher, or a weight trainer. He is very verbal, and very articulate--he could kill me too as he regularly weight trains and is in tremendous shape!!!

But if he stuttered nastily while being in that tremendous muscular shape-- I don't think peak physical shape and fast agility would cut it.

He (my brother) may be physicaly and verbaly agile already, but if he wasn't verbaly agile--he would probably be stuck at the desk job as the first poster said.

As a side note, my brother is currently a manager for a debt collecting agency/firm.

Now if he stuttered severely, would he have been promoted to that management position- heck NO!

It takes verbal skills and strong speaking skills.

I am glad for him that he is taking charge of people below him -he can hire and fire. But on that same coin- I envy him.

He does not know how good it is to be able to speak normaly without trouble and without hesitation.

My brother and other fluent people just will never know the hell we go through every darn day.

It's a nuisence, and impatient pain in the struggling mouth.

And we have to accept that people are not all peachy keen to us--come on it's life.

We need to brush off the a-holes in life. We know better then them

[sst]

how about "Officer down I repeat 'Officer down'. A hundred and eighth and Madison. I need an ambulance ASAP!"

all the while adrenaline is rushing! Good luck vato!

Nate

I would think that person's adrenaline would overpower his stuttering.

[grantM]

I would think that person's adrenaline would overpower his stuttering.

I agree sst. How do you handle high pressure situation? I wonder if anyone has done a study to this effect? Worth a look I think

[sst]

I agree sst. How do you handle high pressure situation? I wonder if anyone has done a study to this effect? Worth a look I think

With that kind of situation, I don't think I would stutter at all. I doubt many people would. But that kind of situation is rare hehe.

[Silent]

With that kind of situation, I don't think I would stutter at all. I doubt many people would. But that kind of situation is rare hehe.
It would have to be a life-threatening situation to temporarily stop my stutter...

[emily445455]

I probably wouldn't stutter either. But as we all know, everyone's stutter is different.