cluttering or stuttering?

[nympfsue]

i posted some videos of me talking on youtube then posted the links on a cluttering forum and a speech pathologist commented that she heard me stuttering a few times, so i thought i should get some opinions here. i'm working on seeing a speech pathologist to get evaluated, but i'm too impatient on waiting lol sorry if i'm bugging you guys i want to know what's going on with me

here's my speaking clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhMWHAW8v4Y&feature=channel_page

[grantM]

Hmm I have watched the video and I don't think I could term you a stutterer myself. If you do stutter then to me it is at a normal everyday level for which most every day people would

[emily445455]

I, honestly, didn't see stuttering or cluttering. I don't know much about cluttering....but I've learned its like stuttering except more severe...like word searching and stuttering during singing and stuff like that.

[Jaykon]

What is cluttering?

[Box of Clocks]

I took a look at your video and I didn't really notice too much wrong with your speech. There were a couple of moments when you drew attention to it by saying you just stuttered and when I played those parts back I noticed it very slightly but only because you mentioned it yourself and alerted me to it.

I realise that you were probably just making the video at home so no doubt were quite comfortable so perhaps you would be worse in a speaking situation outside your comfort zone. Just judging by the video though I thought you spoke pretty well and were about 98% fluent.

[emily445455]

What is cluttering?

Off Wikipedia...

Cluttering is a fluency disorder characterized by a rate that is perceived to be abnormally rapid, irregular, or both for the speaker (although measured syllable rates may not exceed normal limits). These rate abnormalities further are manifest in one or more of the following symptoms: (a) an excessive number of disfluencies, the majority of which are not typical of people with stuttering; (b) the frequent placement of pauses and use of prosodic patterns that do not conform to syntactic and semantic constraints; and (c) inappropriate (usually excessive) degrees of coarticulation among sounds, especially in multisyllabic words.

[nympfsue]

it's the uhhms and uhhs and like uhh's which i use frequently when i'm having a extremely difficult time with word finding. and the changing (stopping) a sentence or thought midway and starting with a new one, sometimes happening between words or in the middle of a word. it's the irregular tone which is hard to pick up in the video, but the 'drop-off' at the end of some of my sentences is noticable. it's not knowing how to articulate what i want to say or explain, sort of like a block in my train of thought. it's the long and inapropriatly placed puases. what i didnt catch in the videos for some reason is saying words wrong (skipping syllables) like instead of saying 'comfortable' saying 'comferble'. i do that alot. i also didnt catch myself speaking rapidly because i was thinking too hard of what to say- when i'm comfortable and the thought train is going well, i speak way too fast. also what was impossible to be caught on tape was the fact that all that speaking was very difficult for me and it wore me out and fried my brain.

btw, thanks for your respones :)

[GoodGuy]

nympfsue you're so damn beautiful! XD, it's always the people that are different that really get me going ^_^

[Carl Herder]

When you found out that you clutter, did a speech-language pathologist tell you or did you figure it out on your own?

After watching the video, I didn't see any cluttering moments, but I did see a few of the small stuttering moments you drew attention to. I could see how in this video though, that there would be little to no cluttering, even though you might very well clutter. One of the interesting phenomena with cluttering is that many who clutter don't clutter at all when they know they are being recorded. If you haven't been formally evaluated for cluttering yet, it might be a good idea. You can send me a private message if you want help finding a fluency/cluttering specialist near you.

[nympfsue]

thank you, goodguy! you're cool too :) nympfsue you're so damn beautiful! XD, it's always the people that are different that really get me going ^_^

carl- i went back to my video and annotated it to point out some of the cluttering moments, but it's hard to follow.
i havent seen a SLP yet but i will be in contact with the 1 (yes, only 1) in my area to make an appointment tomorow. so, so far i have only self diagnosed.
as for not cluttering (or as much) while being brecorded, yes it's true, and also when i am under stress or pressure, or upset, i hardly clutter at all (i had an interview today and i was nervous as heck but i was like 99.9% fluent) but when i feel comfortable (with the situation, conversation, and/or people) i clutter much much more and MUCH more severely. it will be hard when i see the SLP because i know i will be nervous :(


When you found out that you clutter, did a speech-language pathologist tell you or did you figure it out on your own?

After watching the video, I didn't see any cluttering moments, but I did see a few of the small stuttering moments you drew attention to. I could see how in this video though, that there would be little to no cluttering, even though you might very well clutter. One of the interesting phenomena with cluttering is that many who clutter don't clutter at all when they know they are being recorded. If you haven't been formally evaluated for cluttering yet, it might be a good idea. You can send me a private message if you want help finding a fluency/cluttering specialist near you.

[Carl Herder]

Don't know if you've seen this already, but there's a list of Board Recognized Specialists in fluency disorders in the Unites States. http://www.stutteringspecialists.org/ Unfortunately, most SLPs have little to no experience in stuttering or cluttering and openly admit it. There's several reasons for this, one of which is that stuttering is simply a very low prevalence disorder when compared to other speech/language disorders. If someone in your area isn't on this list, I'd suggest that you at least ask them about their experience with stuttering and cluttering.

The more detail you give, the more I believe you clutter, even though I didn't see any obvious cluttering in your YT video. An interesting different between stuttering and cluttering is that nervousness/anxiety tends to exacerbate stuttering, but it often decreases cluttering.

Check this website out too. http://associations.missouristate.edu/ICA/ Its the International Cluttering Association.

[Carl Herder]

This is cluttering

http://www.mnsu.edu/comdis/isad10/papers/Peter.mov

[Jaykon]

This is cluttering

http://www.mnsu.edu/comdis/isad10/papers/Peter.mov

i still don't see it. i mean, i know even fluent people stutter or speak unfluent at times....hmmmm

maybe i'm just expecting something like t-t-t-t-t-t-t-this to come out.

i know a lot of people that sorta sounds like him

[nympfsue]

hi jaykon

i hope this helps...

"it's not like th th th th this"
"it's more like-it's kinda- it sounds like this"

the first statement in quotes is more like stuttering, and the 2nd statement in quotes is more like cluttering. everyone does that, but when someone does it constantly there's a disorder.

does that make sense, anyone???

[Carl Herder]

i still don't see it. i mean, i know even fluent people stutter or speak unfluent at times....hmmmm

maybe i'm just expecting something like t-t-t-t-t-t-t-this to come out.

i know a lot of people that sorta sounds like him

You will notice in the video though if you look closely that the speaker "coarticulates." In other words, "Hello my name is Carl, its nice to meet you" may come out "HemamesCarl, nicetmeeou." What should come out in 11 syllables comes out in something more like 6 syllables.

[ame8199]

i posted some videos of me talking on youtube then posted the links on a cluttering forum and a speech pathologist commented that she heard me stuttering a few times, so i thought i should get some opinions here. i'm working on seeing a speech pathologist to get evaluated, but i'm too impatient on waiting lol sorry if i'm bugging you guys i want to know what's going on with me

here's my speaking clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhMWHAW8v4Y&feature=channel_page

holy crap, thats so me. Im a big time clutterer. I never knew there was a name for it. Im all um, so like, its like I cant find the words for what I want to say.

So now i know i block, stutter and clutter. wooo Im learning already.

[jamesm]

hi jaykon

i hope this helps...

"it's not like th th th th this"
"it's more like-it's kinda- it sounds like this"

the first statement in quotes is more like stuttering, and the 2nd statement in quotes is more like cluttering. everyone does that, but when someone does it constantly there's a disorder.

does that make sense, anyone???

Makes perfect sense to me!! It seems like when I was younger I exclusively "stuttered", meaning when I talked it was only w-w-w-words like this and w-w-w-words like that. But in middle school and leading into my adult life (im 26 now), I actually don't "stutter" like that anymore, well I do, just not exclusively, maybe 5% or so of the time. Now it seems like I just block, word replace and also clutter. (I too have never heard of cluttering until this thread). For example, I use "like" and "uh"/"um" an unusual number of times in a sentence I feel. Even if I know EXACTLY what I am going/need to say!(Such as reading aloud in classrooms or at work). I feel like I talk really fast sometime as well. Mostly when I am being fluent, I kinda feel like, ok this is it, i'm being fluent, I need to say everything that I need to, quick, before I start stuttering again! Most common is if someone asks me my name, its like I feel the block, and then just to be able to say something, so I'm not just standing there with my mouth open blankly staring at this person, I will say "uuumm.....James" or "um, um uuum... James". Then when I'm just talking I will say things like..... Well I was just wandering if it was "like a like" feeling or "like a.... like a" emotion or something. So it seems that the "cluttering", using my umm's and like's, is sort of like a mind trick that I use unconcsiously in order for me not to block. Its like my mind or mouth or something(lol) is thinking.."ok, I know we can't say the word that we want to right now, so until we can, lets fill in this awkward silence/pause with words that simply allow my vocal cords to unlock and produce some sort of sound, period. When I was younger, like 3-4 yrs old, when I went to a SLP for the first time. Come to think of it I was cluttering then... If she made me read or something, I would begin EVERY sentence (or any word that I felt like I was going to stutter on) with an "and"... SO, all my sentences would be something like ,"And, The boy went out of the house","And, When he was outside he saw a dog","And, the dog's name was Barny"......Does anyone relate to this?

[Jaykon]

i see now. like jamesm, i think i clutter as well, due to the habit of word subsitution

[ame8199]

Makes perfect sense to me!! It seems like when I was younger I exclusively "stuttered", meaning when I talked it was only w-w-w-words like this and w-w-w-words like that. But in middle school and leading into my adult life (im 26 now), I actually don't "stutter" like that anymore, well I do, just not exclusively, maybe 5% or so of the time. Now it seems like I just block, word replace and also clutter. (I too have never heard of cluttering until this thread). For example, I use "like" and "uh"/"um" an unusual number of times in a sentence I feel. Even if I know EXACTLY what I am going/need to say!(Such as reading aloud in classrooms or at work). I feel like I talk really fast sometime as well. Mostly when I am being fluent, I kinda feel like, ok this is it, i'm being fluent, I need to say everything that I need to, quick, before I start stuttering again! Most common is if someone asks me my name, its like I feel the block, and then just to be able to say something, so I'm not just standing there with my mouth open blankly staring at this person, I will say "uuumm.....James" or "um, um uuum... James". Then when I'm just talking I will say things like..... Well I was just wandering if it was "like a like" feeling or "like a.... like a" emotion or something. So it seems that the "cluttering", using my umm's and like's, is sort of like a mind trick that I use unconcsiously in order for me not to block. Its like my mind or mouth or something(lol) is thinking.."ok, I know we can't say the word that we want to right now, so until we can, lets fill in this awkward silence/pause with words that simply allow my vocal cords to unlock and produce some sort of sound, period. When I was younger, like 3-4 yrs old, when I went to a SLP for the first time. Come to think of it I was cluttering then... If she made me read or something, I would begin EVERY sentence (or any word that I felt like I was going to stutter on) with an "and"... SO, all my sentences would be something like ,"And, The boy went out of the house","And, When he was outside he saw a dog","And, the dog's name was Barny"......Does anyone relate to this?

I can relate. Whenever I had to read outloud, I always sounded like I couldnt read. I would have blocks as well that made me sound like I didnt know the word, when I knew good and well what the word was. Im trying to think back if I started sentences with words that werent there. Just today, I was talking to my mom on the phone and I would use words like so, and, like, then...even when it wasnt appropriate.

[Carl Herder]

I think I need to clarify something here, cluttering is not simply when someone uses filler words or substitutes words.

From the International Cluttering Association Website, "It is important to understand that the definition of cluttering is a work in progress, and will likely be refined as we gain more information about this communication disorder. In the meantime, researchers gain a good deal of their information about cluttering from adults who are experiencing it. Some of the symptoms commonly observed by researchers and/or reported by adults who clutter are:



* Racing thoughts
* Rapid and/or irregular rate of speech
* Leaving off the ends of words
* Omitting or distoring sounds or syllables (e.g., “elephant” becomes “elphant”; “orange” becomes “orng”)
* Words sound as if they are “running into each other”
* Lots of starts and stops in speaking
* Excessive use of disfluencies such as “um”, “uh”, repeating or revising phrases, or repeating words; unlike stuttering, these disfluencies are not accompanied by struggle behaviors or muscular tension
* Difficulty organizing thoughts and/or getting to the point
* Limited awareness of how one’s speech sounds to others
* Difficulties slowing down even when asked to do so
* Tendency to interrupt conversational partner
* Words or ideas come out differently than intended



There are other difficulties which have been identified by those who clutter. Research is currently in progress to determine whether these symptoms are a part of the disorder of cluttering, or simply other disorders that tend to co-occur with cluttering in some individuals. This is difficult to separate because everyone’s experience of cluttering is not the same. Some of these symptoms are:



* Difficulties with handwriting, i.e. legibility decreases with time
* Difficulties sustaining attention for such activities as reading and/or small talk
* Always “on the go”
* Difficulties with typing words accurately, such as having to do excessive editing of email messages
*

Speech is often at its best in a structured situation in which the person is actively monitoring it, such as when being videotaped. Speech is often at its worst when the person is more relaxed.



If you have some of the symptoms listed in this document, you may be experiencing cluttering. However, a definitive diagnosis of cluttering can only be made by a speech-language pathologist who has experience and expertise with this communication disorder. Cluttering may also co-occur with stuttering. Because cluttering and stuttering are closely related fluency disorders, a speech-language pathologist with expertise in the area of fluency disorders is often the ideal professional to diagnosis and/or treat a cluttering disorder. See our “Resources” section for further information on locating a specialist in your area."

http://associations.missouristate.edu/ICA/