About to go to HCRI....

[njdevil7]

I'm going to HCRI in about 3 weeks, and after reading some threads on this forum, i've become very apprehensive.

Is there anyone else who has gone to HCRI? I would like anyone's input.

Thanks

[amey]

As long as you go into this situation KNOWING your stutter will not be gone, I think it could be useful. It all deppneds on our EXPECTATION of therapy of any kind.-- View it as a tool and not a cure.--- Good luck!

[Adrian]

NJ, I almost stayed silent rather than discourage you. But I decided to share my opinion anyway. You have likely seen some of my posts and know that I am not a big fan of HCRI. I won't get into my issues with the program as you can find them in the archives.

There are no sure fire therapies but I think you can do better than HCRI. HCRI is long and expensive and it can be demoralizing if it does not work after putting in so much time, money, and effort.

If you can get out of it, my suggestion would be to do so and look elsewhere for therapy. If you are in NJ the American Institute of Stuttering is right up the road in NYC.

If you do decide to go through with it just don't buy into the hype and realize the program is tough and takes alot of hard work. For most the fluency comes easy in the clinic, but the program does very little to help with your fluency outside the clinic walls and you will need to push yourself and remain disciplined without much guidance.

If you would like to discuss further, send me your number in a private message and I will answer any questions you have. Thanks!

[Sarah11085]

My personal opinion is don't go. It did a lot of damage to me the second time around when I couldn't hold up what I had learned outside of the clinic. I was even more afraid of stuttering because my speech had improved, now even time I stuttered I felt like a complete failure. Now, I am realized that I need to accept who I am. I am person who stutters and that is OK! Stop pretending to be something I am not. I am not a fluent person and never will be. It doesn't make me any less of a person, even though I used to really feel that way. Hope this helps.

[njdevil7]

Well, I already paid, so I'm going. Is it the work outside the clinic that's hard? Or is it that the therapy itself is ineffective? Because it seems like speech outside their program is important to them.

I am willing to do the work, whatever it takes. I know I won't be 100% fluent, but my stutter isn't very serious anyway. I consider it to be pretty mild, I can talk fluently most of the time, depending on the situation. I just want to get to that 95% level that they advertise. Do you think as a mild stutterer I have a better chance of success?

[Nemo]

My stutter isn't very serious anyway. I just want to get to that 95% level that they advertise. Do you think as a mild stutterer I have a better chance of success?

I don't know anything about the HCRI, but I'm sure that people with a mild stutter are in a better position to benefit from therapy. For instance, it's easier to apply a fluency technique if your stutter is not that bad anyway.

[Sarah11085]

I'm curious what was your experience at HCRI?

[skumar]

I took the 12 day HCRI course and found it useful. They are detail oriented and exhaustivly cover and classify all possible sounds. Its very scientific and it s to give you tools to modify your speaking behaviours.

[marktb68]

I don't understand why its so hard for you guys to transfer Hollins targets or practice techniques to the real world. Sure, it DOES take practice but its well worth the "pain". The key is to move up in stressful situations, i.e. alone, with someone, phone, a small group, etc. In each situation, don't ever allow yourself to mentally not use a target. Soon, bam! you don't think about it and the brain doesn't view the situation as stressing thus you will be fluent.

I have tried every therapy known to man and this is the only thing that has worked for me. Trust me, its not easy. I am not saying it is. But, with enough practice the refusal to give up you can easily control stuttering to almost nil.

Mark

[skumar]

[QUOTE=marktb68;46076] Hi Mark, are you going to be at HCRI reunion this July (16 -18 I believe ??)

[amey]

I don't understand why its so hard for you guys to transfer Hollins targets or practice techniques to the real world. Sure, it DOES take practice but its well worth the "pain". The key is to move up in stressful situations, i.e. alone, with someone, phone, a small group, etc. In each situation, don't ever allow yourself to mentally not use a target. Soon, bam! you don't think about it and the brain doesn't view the situation as stressing thus you will be fluent.

I have tried every therapy known to man and this is the only thing that has worked for me. Trust me, its not easy. I am not saying it is. But, with enough practice the refusal to give up you can easily control stuttering to almost nil.

Mark

It is great that a program has worked for you, but what you are essentially doing in this post is blaming stutterers for not trying hard enough. Stuttering varies from person to person and there is no ONE program for everyone.

-- One of the most frustrating situations for stutterers AND therapists is the inablilty to move the progress from the therapy room to the "real world". We all get that! You berating stutterers for their inablilty to do so is pretty arrogant and non productive. It is actually pretty disgusting.

[Nemo]

I don't understand why its so hard for you guys to transfer Hollins targets or practice techniques to the real world. Sure, it DOES take practice but its well worth the "pain". The key is to move up in stressful situations, i.e. alone, with someone, phone, a small group, etc. ... its not easy. I am not saying it is. But, with enough practice the refusal to give up you can easily control stuttering to almost nil.

I agree with you to some extent, but failure to practise is only one reason for transfer failure. Another major source of failure and relapse is the psychological, subconscious reaction of the 'stutterer within you'. For many people there is a psychological side to stuttering. It's no use working toward fluency if the typical stutterer's psychology is ignored. Apart from fluency techniques, many of us may also need to work on our self-image, assertiveness, confidence etc.

There are other reasons for transfer failure. Some people are so highly stressed that the fluency brought about by techniques soon wears off, as their usual stress patterns reassert themselves - they omitted to work on reducing their stress levels. In other cases the stuttering is so firmly entrenched and reinforced through years of conditioning that applying techniques in real life becomes very difficult.

[srdonjuan]

Very well said, I have to agree with everything you said. I attended the program there and it did very little to address the emotional and psychological aspects of stuttering. What is your opinion on AIS?

[greggsteven]

i went to hcri when i was 17. Saved my life. i was a severe blocker. It helped me. I am now 48 and can function in society. It never made me 100% fluent and i didnt like how i spoke, but it did teach me how to get through those sweat inducing blocks. If you have a chance to go it cant hurt you. Good luck.

[marktb68]

Amey, I am sorry you took my post so personally. I never attacked anyone, but we all need to be honest with ourselves and take responsibility for our present problems(stuttering). Have you done everything humanely possible with a clear mind and heart? I know I haven't. Can I work harder and be even more open with others? I certainly can. Am I STILL ashamed and holding back? You bet I am!!

HcRI is NOT a cure all but it gives you something to work TOWARDS. We need a goal, a practice technique, and something to get us thru stressful situations.

I 100% agree they do not address the emotional issues. Its not their job. its YOURS. I am a devote student of EFT and use it often. I stopped depending on anyone else to solve my problems and started taking 100% responsibility for every aspect/issue in my life. On some level I created it.

Thanks for the feedback,

Mark

[srdonjuan]

No doubt we need to come to terms that it is totally up to us. No one is going to do it for us.
I went to HCRI when I was 18 and at that stage in my life I was still very much trying to figure out what was happening when I was stuttering and what I could do to battle it. I had no conception of the mental aspect of stuttering.
I think it WAS and IS HCRI's responsibility to teach their students how to address and deal with the emotional and mental aspects of stuttering. FLuency will never be gained with out addressing that. If they want to be an effective program and be considered a complete program, then they should address all the aspects that cause and help maintain stuttering.
I never expected an easy fix and I went to HCRI and worked my butt off. But I payed $4000 when I had little money so I don't think it's unfair to expect them to supply you with the needed tools. I know they taught us everything they know, but I believe there are just people and programs that know more.

It was a good program, but I just would not recommend it until they address the full big picture. Thats just me.

[amey]

Amey, I am sorry you took my post so personally. I never attacked anyone, but we all need to be honest with ourselves and take responsibility for our present problems(stuttering). Have you done everything humanely possible with a clear mind and heart? I know I haven't. Can I work harder and be even more open with others? I certainly can. Am I STILL ashamed and holding back? You bet I am!!

HcRI is NOT a cure all but it gives you something to work TOWARDS. We need a goal, a practice technique, and something to get us thru stressful situations.

I 100% agree they do not address the emotional issues. Its not their job. its YOURS. I am a devote student of EFT and use it often. I stopped depending on anyone else to solve my problems and started taking 100% responsibility for every aspect/issue in my life. On some level I created it.

Thanks for the feedback,

Mark

I didnt take it personally for myself. My fear is that another person, who doesnt understand the nature of stuttering, would read that and ONCE AGAIN blame themselves. That was my concern. How many times have stutterers heard that they just need to practice more.- -Stuttering is certainly not a "Practice makes perfect" situation. If that were the case, so many of us would be cured.

There is a huge paradigm shift happening in the treatment of stuttering. People are finally realizing that until the emotional side of stuttering is addressed, the actual application of management skills is fruitless. How can a person apply a skill when fear is so ingrained into their being that they are literally paralyzed by it. --- Most people need Assistance in dealing with this fear, as with ANY life debilitating fear/phobia.--Fear became a natural reaction at some point and psychologically it needs to be broken down. I kind of view it like PTSD, it is real. People have panic attacks! Crazy stuff.-- Breaking down a lifetime of fear and avoidance usually requires assistance and TIME .Most people dont even know where to start.-- A good therapist will have this emotional reparation on the TOP of the list, in beginning therapy.

I, along with stutterers through out history, can honestly say I have done it all. Doesnt mean I am done, but it does mean that I understand that this is NEVER going away. I gave up that fantasy LONG ago.-- I have worked hard and continue to. I agree with you on that! :)-- I am on a MANAGEMENT/Maintenance program over here! take care, amey

[njdevil7]

I got back about 3 weeks ago, and my speech has definitely improved. It's not perfect, and I'm still not 100% satisfied with myself in daily situations, but that takes time.

I have to agree with Mark. Trust me, I know how much stuttering s. We all do. But sitting around complaining about how much it s isn't going to change anything. If you are fortunate to have the time/money to go to HCRI, then you should allow yourself for no excuses. Because those excuses get you nowhere.

If I start making excuses for going off-target, wheather its because I'm around family, or I just don't care, etc, I'm only hurting myself. There IS something I can do about it, and there's noone else to do it but myself. Those emotional issues stem from stuttering, which stems from going off-target. If you stay on-target and use the techniques as best you can, those emotional responses go away.

[Sarah11085]

I didnt take it personally for myself. My fear is that another person, who doesnt understand the nature of stuttering, would read that and ONCE AGAIN blame themselves. That was my concern. How many times have stutterers heard that they just need to practice more.- -Stuttering is certainly not a "Practice makes perfect" situation. If that were the case, so many of us would be cured.

There is a huge paradigm shift happening in the treatment of stuttering. People are finally realizing that until the emotional side of stuttering is addressed, the actual application of management skills is fruitless. How can a person apply a skill when fear is so ingrained into their being that they are literally paralyzed by it. --- Most people need Assistance in dealing with this fear, as with ANY life debilitating fear/phobia.--Fear became a natural reaction at some point and psychologically it needs to be broken down. I kind of view it like PTSD, it is real. People have panic attacks! Crazy stuff.-- Breaking down a lifetime of fear and avoidance usually requires assistance and TIME .Most people dont even know where to start.-- A good therapist will have this emotional reparation on the TOP of the list, in beginning therapy.

I, along with stutterers through out history, can honestly say I have done it all. Doesnt mean I am done, but it does mean that I understand that this is NEVER going away. I gave up that fantasy LONG ago.-- I have worked hard and continue to. I agree with you on that! :)-- I am on a MANAGEMENT/Maintenance program over here! take care, amey

I agree with everything you said! Keep it up!

[Sarah11085]

I got back about 3 weeks ago, and my speech has definitely improved. It's not perfect, and I'm still not 100% satisfied with myself in daily situations, but that takes time.

I have to agree with Mark. Trust me, I know how much stuttering s. We all do. But sitting around complaining about how much it s isn't going to change anything. If you are fortunate to have the time/money to go to HCRI, then you should allow yourself for no excuses. Because those excuses get you nowhere.

If I start making excuses for going off-target, wheather its because I'm around family, or I just don't care, etc, I'm only hurting myself. There IS something I can do about it, and there's noone else to do it but myself. Those emotional issues stem from stuttering, which stems from going off-target. If you stay on-target and use the techniques as best you can, those emotional responses go away.

I totally disagree with the stay on target and the emotional aspects go away. For me, the emotions were even stronger after HCRI. I've decided that it's OK to stutter. I can still be an effective communicator.

[marktb68]

Sarah, inpart I agree. However, do you really accept your stuttering or are you looking for ways to control it,overcome it, etc.? I really don't anyone who, in their right minds,completely accepts something that has caused pain and negative emotions.

Again, my golf analogy. should I "accept" that I slice my driver or should I work on my technique and practice, practice, practice?

We should learn to accept OURSELVES, not our stuttering.

[Sarah11085]

Mark,
No, I am not looking for ways to control my stuttering. I am working on being an effective communicaor who stutters.

[Devayan]

Hey..Im new to the forums.
I think I would give HCRI a shot too. I have read, most of what people have to say concerning HCRI, and I intuitively believe HCRI is a good option.

njdevil7, I hope you keep us posted about your progress with your newly acquired fluency.

[amey]

Sarah, inpart I agree. However, do you really accept your stuttering or are you looking for ways to control it,overcome it, etc.? I really don't anyone who, in their right minds,completely accepts something that has caused pain and negative emotions.

Again, my golf analogy. should I "accept" that I slice my driver or should I work on my technique and practice, practice, practice?

We should learn to accept OURSELVES, not our stuttering.

There are many, many stutterers who accept their stuttering and are managing it and living happy, successful lives as dignified stutterers.

Accepting ones stuttering and "practicing" management techniques
dont have to be mutually exclusive. You seem to think that Accepting stuttering is some how giving up, or giving into weakness. It is quite the opposite. Acceptance is acknowlegement of the situation, that is all.-- I accept my stuttering AND I use management techniques. I accept my situation as a person who stutterers. Really not as complicated as you are making it.

So, yes, you can control/manage your stuttering and accept it at the same time.

[amey]

Mark,
No, I am not looking for ways to control my stuttering. I am working on being an effective communicaor who stutters.

Hi SARAH! YOu can be an effective, stuttering communicator, who both accepts her stuttering and tries to manage/control it, if you want! Or not...You create your OWN recipe of what YOU want and ignore irrational input. Good luck in all you do and Keep on trucking! love, amey

[mike2009]

I don't understand why its so hard for you guys to transfer Hollins targets or practice techniques to the real world. Sure, it DOES take practice but its well worth the "pain". The key is to move up in stressful situations, i.e. alone, with someone, phone, a small group, etc. In each situation, don't ever allow yourself to mentally not use a target. Soon, bam! you don't think about it and the brain doesn't view the situation as stressing thus you will be fluent.

I have tried every therapy known to man and this is the only thing that has worked for me. Trust me, its not easy. I am not saying it is. But, with enough practice the refusal to give up you can easily control stuttering to almost nil.

Mark

Good for you. Glad you've had such success. But please stop the proselytizing and the "it's not easy" BS. The basic fact is that stuttering, and the emotional baggage of stuttering, varies tremendously from person to person. So, it's great if fluency shaping worked for you, but don't berate me because I found it completely useless and counterproductive.

I've done three fluency-shaping programs, HCRI and two others based on HCRI. All of them were the full three-week programs, and my experience with all was the same. Inside the clinic, I obtained wonderful fluency, and I was able to transfer it outside the clinic with some degree of success for the first month or so. Outside, though, no matter how much I practiced--hours of drills at home, including practice telephone calls, even visits to the mall to practice transfer--the fluency wore off. It just does, maybe not to the same degree with people who were originally mild stutterers, but I found it impossible to maintain the techniques in real conversational situations. Even worse, I was FAR more anxious about my speech after the fluency-shaping immersion therapy than I was before. Where I'd once put myself into new situations and let the embarrassment of blocks roll off my shoulder, after fluency-shaping therapy I had an existential crisis every time I blocked. So, I started to avoid situations.

One note: I find the whole attitude that "if the therapy doesn't work, it's the patient's fault, after all, it isn't EASY" to be reprehensible and sickening. Unfortunately, therapy programs often develop a fanatical following--I know, because in the weeks after I returned from fluency shaping, I'd try to convince every stutterer I knew to take the program. For some reason, fluency shaping seems to have some of the most obnoxious followers of all.